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	<title>The Jesus Blog &#187; Oneness Pentecostal</title>
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		<title>The Jesus Blog &#187; Oneness Pentecostal</title>
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		<title>Is it business as usual?</title>
		<link>http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/08/03/is-it-business-as-usual/</link>
		<comments>http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/08/03/is-it-business-as-usual/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[
Anointed preaching from Minister Wayne Clark at Bethel United Church of Jesus Christ Apostolic&#8217;s Holy Convocation 2009.  This message exhorts the church to find the way of holiness and not continue with &#8220;business as usual&#8221;&#8230; let us go back to the fear of the LORD and then we will see his power manifesting in the [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=jesusblogger.wordpress.com&blog=2037917&post=817&subd=jesusblogger&ref=&feed=1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='snap_preview'><br /><p><span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/08/03/is-it-business-as-usual/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/i4GxkqLhr7M/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
<p>Anointed preaching from Minister Wayne Clark at Bethel United Church of Jesus Christ Apostolic&#8217;s Holy Convocation 2009.  This message exhorts the church to find the way of holiness and not continue with &#8220;business as usual&#8221;&#8230; let us go back to the fear of the LORD and then we will see his power manifesting in the church.</p>
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		<title>Highlights of Mother Dunn&#8217;s Home Going Service</title>
		<link>http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/highlights-of-mother-dunns-home-going-service/</link>
		<comments>http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/highlights-of-mother-dunns-home-going-service/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>jesusblogger</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/?p=802</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here &#8217;s a selection of clips from today&#8217;s home going service for Mother Chloe E Dunn.




       <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=jesusblogger.wordpress.com&blog=2037917&post=802&subd=jesusblogger&ref=&feed=1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='snap_preview'><br /><p>Here &#8217;s a selection of clips from today&#8217;s home going service for Mother Chloe E Dunn.</p>
<p><span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/highlights-of-mother-dunns-home-going-service/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/YN6F_861TEE/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
<p><span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/highlights-of-mother-dunns-home-going-service/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/ACBWDs-Lt54/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
<p><span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/highlights-of-mother-dunns-home-going-service/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/vbzGcwd9rtA/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
<p><span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/highlights-of-mother-dunns-home-going-service/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/wJGEdUR2kdA/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
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		<title>7 things you will see when someone is baptised in Jesus name according to the Apostolic model of Acts 2:38</title>
		<link>http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/05/16/7-things-you-will-see-when-someone-is-baptised-in-jesus-name-according-to-the-apostolic-model-of-acts-238/</link>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 10:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>jesusblogger</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Baptism]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/?p=673</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
Adding this clip to the blog as a piece of cultural anthropology.  It is quite an accurate snapshot of how Apostolic Pentecostal baptismal services are conducted by Apostolics with West Indian roots.  
The service usually involves: -
1. Baptismal candidate wearing white, or a similar garment (symbolic of purity, holiness)
2. Women&#8217;s heads are covered &#8211; in [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=jesusblogger.wordpress.com&blog=2037917&post=673&subd=jesusblogger&ref=&feed=1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='snap_preview'><br /><p><span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/05/16/7-things-you-will-see-when-someone-is-baptised-in-jesus-name-according-to-the-apostolic-model-of-acts-238/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/A0IF-07zm_Y/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
<p>Adding this clip to the blog as a piece of cultural anthropology.  It is quite an accurate snapshot of how Apostolic Pentecostal baptismal services are conducted by Apostolics with West Indian roots.  </p>
<p><strong>The service usually involves: -</strong></p>
<p>1. Baptismal candidate wearing white, or a similar garment (symbolic of purity, holiness)</p>
<p>2. Women&#8217;s heads are covered &#8211; in accordance with the Apostolic doctrine of heads being covered when praying or prophesying.</p>
<p>3. Congregational singing is going on in the background &#8211; in recognition of Jesus&#8217; words that Heaven rejoices over one sinner who repents.   Likewise, the church on earth expresses great joy.</p>
<p>4. The songs are usually about baptism i.e. &#8216;take me to the water&#8217;s&#8217;  and after the baptism a song of repentance is sung such as &#8216;goodbye world, I&#8217;ll stay no longer with you&#8217; or a song about the New Birth, or Jesus&#8217; soon return. </p>
<p>5. The minister will ask the candidate to confirm their faith in Jesus&#8217; before being baptised. Sometimes, they will say words to the effect of: &#8220;thy vows oh Lord are upon me until death&#8221;.  Then the baptiser will say: &#8220;upon the confession of your faith, I now baptise you in the name of Jesus Christ (for the remission of your sins)&#8221;. </p>
<p>6. Usually, the words &#8220;in the name of Jesus Christ&#8221; are timed in such a way that as the person hits the water the Name of Jesus is invoked over them.</p>
<p>7. Sometimes, the candidate will come up out of the water speaking in unknown tongues.  Usually always, the candidate will be crying or feeling the great overwhelming change that God has wrought in their life.  If the candidate expresses no emotion at all, it is a signal that they may not actually have believed in my opinion &#8211; this should be the happiest day of someone&#8217;s life.</p>
<p>The church above is Hackney Penetcosal Church in London, Pastored by a female pastor, Pastor Douglas.  It is not uncommon in West Indian Pentecostal Churches for a female to be in a position of pastoral leadership.  Although, it is much more unusal for a woman to be ordained as a Bishop within either a Trinitarian or Oneness Penetcostal Church, despite the many women missionaries, evangelists and pastors.  Maybe one day we will see another extordinary woman of God, whom the Spirit of God is upon and the leadership of the church are led of the Spirit to ordain a woman bishop.  Just as Mother Christine Agatha Walsh in Jamaica was a Bishop &#8211; her ministry started during the 1930&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>You can tell the world about this, you can tell the nations about that, tell them Jesus has come&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/05/06/you-can-tell-the-world-about-this-you-can-tell-the-nations-about-that-tell-them-jesus-has-come/</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 11:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
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This is such a powerfully awesome clip!  The song goes: -
You can tell the world about this,
You can tell the nations about that,
Tell them Jesus has come,
Tell them that the Comforter has come,
It brings joy to my soul,
It brings joy to my soul (repeat till fire falls)
This song has so much meaning to me.  In [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=jesusblogger.wordpress.com&blog=2037917&post=666&subd=jesusblogger&ref=&feed=1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='snap_preview'><br /><p><span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/05/06/you-can-tell-the-world-about-this-you-can-tell-the-nations-about-that-tell-them-jesus-has-come/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/-Vq5Byt8Bsc/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
<p>This is such a powerfully awesome clip!  The song goes: -</p>
<blockquote><p>You can tell the world about this,<br />
You can tell the nations about that,<br />
Tell them Jesus has come,<br />
Tell them that the Comforter has come,<br />
It brings joy to my soul,<br />
It brings joy to my soul (repeat till fire falls)</p></blockquote>
<p>This song has so much meaning to me.  In a world where companies are spending £million$ to get their message out through advertising on TV, Radio, Online, Mail, Billboards and so on we just want people to know that Jesus has come!</p>
<p>The clip above was from the funeral (homegoing) service of Bishop A. G Miller, who was a founder member of Bethel United Church of Jesus Christ (Apostolic) in the UK, and pastored over the Northern District of churches from our Manchester assembly.  What could make  people so happy at a funeral?  The thought that Jesus has come! And, the assurance that those who know Him don&#8217;t die, we just sleep until He comes again to raise us up on the last day.</p>
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		<title>&#8220;Hold on pan yu victry&#8221; distinctly Jamaican praise from Bethel South Camp Road</title>
		<link>http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/05/02/hold-on-pan-yu-victry-distinctly-jamaican-praise-from-bethel-south-camp-road/</link>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 07:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Did the majority of Christians believe in the Trinity before AD 325?</title>
		<link>http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/05/02/did-the-majority-of-christians-believe-in-the-trinity-before-ad-325/</link>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 07:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Did the majority of Christian&#8217;s believe in the Trinity before AD 325, or was the Trinity a doctrine that was gradually introduced to Christianity that grew in influence over the years?
The 2nd Century (AD 95 &#8211; 199)


The 3 Bishops who wrote during this period did not write anything about a Trinity doctrine.  All of their works, [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=jesusblogger.wordpress.com&blog=2037917&post=627&subd=jesusblogger&ref=&feed=1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='snap_preview'><br /><p class="western">Did the majority of Christian&#8217;s believe in the Trinity before AD 325, or was the Trinity a doctrine that was gradually introduced to Christianity that grew in influence over the years?</p>
<p class="western"><strong>The 2<sup>nd</sup> Century (AD 95 &#8211; 199)</strong></p>
<p class="western">
<ul>
<li>The 3 Bishops who wrote during this period did not write anything about a Trinity doctrine.  All of their works, apart from the psuedographa spoke of One God in Christ (not 3 Persons). </li>
<li>&#8216;He [Ignatius] says, “Our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived in the womb of Mary according to a dispensation.” He speaks of “the passion of my God”, “the blood of God”, and “Jesus Christ our God”, “There is one God who manifested Himself through Jesus Christ.”&#8217; <strong>Weisser, 1981 p.1<span style="font-weight:normal;"><strong></strong></span></strong></li>
<li><strong><span style="font-weight:normal;">In the 2<sup>nd</sup> half of the 2<sup>nd</sup> Century the Apologists started to introduce Greek Philosophical thought. Doctrines such as Justin’s theory that the Logos was separate to God, started to water down the pure monotheism of the Early Church.<strong></strong></span></strong></li>
<li>Tertullian said that those who believed in the doctrine of One God who manifests Himself as Father, Son &amp; Holy Ghost (but is not 3 seperate persons) were the majority &#8211; Tertullian&#8217;s view of Triniarianism was a minority view and he belonged to a heretic sect called the Montanists &#8211; who falesly predicted Christ&#8217;s return (Bernard, 1995).</li>
</ul>
<p class="western"><strong>The 3<sup>rd</sup> Century (c. 200 – 299)</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>A succession of 4 Roman bishops maintained the apostolic doctrine of One God, and that Jesus was the One True God. These are <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Eleutherus, Victor and Zephrinius and Callistus</span>. We know of them through the writings of <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Hippolytus</span> who they believed was a ditheist as he believed in God the Father &amp; The Logos as 2 divine beings</li>
<li>Teachers <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Praxeas</span> (c. 189-99) and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Noetus</span> c. 200 taught that there was but One God with not distinction of persons, or plurality in the Godhead. However, the Apologist Hippolytus accused them of heresy.</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li>
<p class="western">Another prominent teacher was Sabellius. He preached in Rome c. 215. He taught there was One God, who manifested Himself in different ways – he rejected the idea of plurality in the godhead (Weisser, 1981). Sabellius baptised in Jesus’ name and in 381 when Trinitarianism was adopted as the official doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church, Sabellian baptism (i.e. in Jesus’ Name) was deemed invalid (Weisser, 1981).</p>
</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li>
<p class="western">The view of Sabellius was closer to orthodox Biblical apostolic doctrine – and many believers of the 3<sup>rd</sup> &amp; 4<sup>th</sup> Century believed this way (Weisser, 1981).</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p class="western"> </p>
<p class="western" align="JUSTIFY"><strong>4<sup>th</sup> Century (AD. 300 &#8211; 325)</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>It is in the 4<sup>th</sup> Century in AD 325 that the apostolic doctrines of One God and baptism in Jesus’ Name are abandoned in favour of the doctrine of the Trinity (One God in Three Persons) and a Trinitarian formula (repetition of Matt. 28:19).</li>
<li>Robert Robinson, in his work entitled Ecclesiastical Researches says the following about the Council of Nicaea. “All the classes, who did not hold the doctrine of a trinity of persons in God, whether called Artemonites, Paulianists, Arians, Monarchians, Patropassians, Sabellians, or by any other name, administered baptism in the name of Christ. <strong>Weisser, 1981, p. 7</strong></li>
</ul>
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		<title>It can not remain unspoken that Ton3x is a shame to the name Apostolic</title>
		<link>http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/04/19/it-can-not-remain-unspoken-that-ton3x-is-a-shame-to-the-name-apostolic/</link>
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		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 16:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
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I have to say that Tonex is a big embarrassment to the Apostolic (Oneness Pentecostal) movement.  He was born and raised in the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, had the privilege of being mentored by Bishop Norman L Wagner, and yet the guy is totally from the pit of hell. 
Posts like &#8216;Tonex has forgotten God&#8216; [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=jesusblogger.wordpress.com&blog=2037917&post=605&subd=jesusblogger&ref=&feed=1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='snap_preview'><br /><p><a href="http://thechristianmanifesto.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/tonex-unspoken.jpg?w=400&amp;h=400"><img class="alignright" src="http://thechristianmanifesto.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/tonex-unspoken.jpg?w=240&amp;h=400&#038;h=240" alt="" width="240" height="240" /></a></p>
<p><strong>I have to say that </strong><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonéx" target="_self"><strong>Tonex</strong></a><strong> is a big embarrassment to the Apostolic (Oneness Pentecostal) movement.  </strong>He was born and raised in the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, had the privilege of being mentored by Bishop Norman L Wagner, and yet the guy is totally from the pit of hell. </p>
<p>Posts like &#8216;<a href="http://blog.christocentric.com/2008/08/14/tonex-has-4gotten-god/" target="_blank">Tonex has forgotten God</a>&#8216; I have to agree with 100%, he has moved so far away from the landmark, that he is now playing in the devil&#8217;s court.   In a recent interview he is quoted as saying he believes that &#8216;Jesus is the way for me, but not necessarily someone else&#8217;.  This is the kind of thing I expect from Oprah, not a Christian.</p>
<blockquote><p><em>“I respect all faiths and I’ve studied all faiths.  So you know how can you really understand humankind if your way is the only way?”</em></p>
<p><em>I know the way for me, …for me it’s Jesus but for someone else it may not be.  And I’m not going to bash who they are because they don’t believe what I believe.” [Video available <a href="http://blog.christocentric.com/2009/04/11/tonex-on-bet-another-pulpit-pimp/" target="_blank">here</a>]</em></p></blockquote>
<p>There are some who are using the fact Tonex came from an Apostolic church as an argument against what we believe.  However, I can assure you that Tonex is not representing anyone in the Oneness Pentecostalism, he is only speaking on behalf of himself and his strange ideas.  To see what actual Apostolic Pentecostals from different churches think, check out the Apostolic Friends Forum which has a discussion thread entitled: <a href="http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/archive/index.php/t-9610.html">&#8220;SHOCKER!! PAW Min. Tonex embraces Carlton Pearson&#8217;s Doctrine on TV Show&#8221;</a> </p>
<p><span id="more-605"></span></p>
<blockquote><p><em>Tonex is an Apostolic train wreck! He has lived a very public questionable lifestyle and his father would never have endorsed such nonsense.  (Comment on Apostolic Friends Forum)</em></p></blockquote>
<p>No true Apostolic would ever release a song that needed Parental Advisory warning due to the <a href="http://www.gospelmusicbites.com/2007/11/06/yeah-he-said-it-tonex-talks-to-eur-gospel-about-the-infamous-youtube-video/" target="_blank">profane language</a> of the lyrics, as <a href="http://www.unitedbyone.co.uk/Articles/139274/United_by_ONE/news/TON3X_makes_a.aspx">Tonex (Ton3x) did in Naked Truth</a>.  Here are the lyrics, courtesy of <a href="http://gcraige.blogspot.com/2007_07_05_archive.html" target="_blank">Craige Lewis</a> - after reading, tell me which gospel artist ever did a song like that?</p>
<blockquote><p><strong><span style="color:#0000ff;">THE NAKED TRUTH</span></strong></p>
<p><strong>I know the truth now.<br />
I feel like crying but I&#8217;m not sad<br />
I feel like yelling but I&#8217;m not angry<br />
I feel like screaming but I&#8217;m not scared<br />
I&#8217;m not afraid anymore and I got out ALIVE.</p>
<p>I peeled off layers of b-llsh-t and falsehood<br />
I peeled off years of slander and embarrassment.<br />
The fighting at school for being called out my name<br />
I peeled off the first day Dionne McGriff called me that name</p>
<p>My core is strong,my abs are tight<br />
For get the six pack, try &#8220;10 pack&#8221;&#8230; alright ?<br />
I&#8217;m black but I don&#8217;t resent being called a Nigga<br />
I took the power from its origin and made it a trigger</p>
<p>I&#8217;m wiser I&#8217;m thicker I&#8217;m sexy I&#8217;m bold<br />
I&#8217;m hot I&#8217;m next I&#8217;m saved to the bone<br />
I&#8217;m prophet<br />
I&#8217;m model<br />
I&#8217;m singer<br />
I&#8217;m rapper<br />
My swagger is corporate<br />
My thug life is dapper</p>
<p>I got out just in time before I lost my mind<br />
I&#8217;m good I&#8217;m cool I&#8217;m alright I&#8217;m fine<br />
I&#8217;m fine as the hell I&#8217;ve been rescued from<br />
I&#8217;m not just a Baller , yo my nephew is one.</p>
<p>I got my cock back<br />
no longer castrated<br />
I&#8217;m revered &amp; and loathed<br />
I&#8217;m applauded and hated</p>
<p>I&#8217;m gone keep coming back<br />
I love to be underrated<br />
so I can prove they -ss wrong<br />
and y&#8217;all can copy and paste it</p>
<p>If you beat my -ss up it ain&#8217;t because I&#8217;m afraid<br />
I&#8217;ll never lose my heart of courage I&#8217;ll say it up in your face<br />
y&#8217;all stabbed me in the side but I got back up<br />
y&#8217;all tried to defame me and smash me but I got back up</p>
<p>I never thought that I would have the strength to &#8220;man&#8221; back up<br />
Now I can stand with my middle finger stuck right up<br />
I did it I made it, the genius, the faggot<br />
the wierdo the homo the hobo the magnet</p>
<p>cuz I keep drawing back cuz you wanna see more<br />
gimme 3 years I&#8217;ll spark a revival bigger than william J seymour<br />
baptizing all the people that your -ss can&#8217;t reach<br />
using my hands to grab a basin to wash my enemies feet</p>
<p></strong><strong>don&#8217;t judge a tree by the fruit gotta go to the root<br />
there&#8217;s nothin else y&#8217;all can say to me&#8230;..</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>I have to conclude that Tonex (Ton3x) has left the Apostolic principles of holiness and gone his own way.  In fact, apparently <strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Ton3x (Tonex) is now a believer in the Trinity.</span></strong></p>
<blockquote><p><em>For the uninitiated, </em><a rel="tag" href="http://technorati.com/tag/Tonex" target="_blank"><em>Tonex</em></a><em> is a fellow that God blessed with genius &#8211; like musical talent and excellent preaching ability. Unfortunately, Tonex grew up in a “holiness or hell” Pentecostal church whose false doctrine came out of the modalist Oneness Pentecostal heresy. Now Tonex himself believes in Trinity (source: <span style="font-style:normal;"><a href="http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/03/30/tonex-is-back-is-that-a-good-thing/">http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2007/03/30/tonex-is-back-is-that-a-good-thing/)</a></span></em></p></blockquote>
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		<title>A report into the dialogue between Oneness Pentecostals and Trinitarian Pentecostals</title>
		<link>http://jesusblogger.wordpress.com/2009/04/18/a-report-into-the-dialogue-between-oneness-pentecostals-and-trinitarian-pentecostals/</link>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[A report is available into the dialogue between Oneness Pentecostals and Trinitarian Pentecostals.  The report was conducted by the Society for Pentecostal Studies. Contributors include leaders from George Wood (Assemblies of God), Kenneth Haney (United Pentecostal Church International) etc&#8230; and eminent Oneness Pentecostal teacher Daniel Seagraves  who has posted his contribution to the paper on his blog [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=jesusblogger.wordpress.com&blog=2037917&post=595&subd=jesusblogger&ref=&feed=1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class='snap_preview'><br /><p>A report is available into the dialogue between Oneness Pentecostals and Trinitarian Pentecostals.  The report was conducted by the <a href="http://www.sps-usa.org/" target="_blank">Society for Pentecostal Studies.</a> Contributors include leaders from George Wood (Assemblies of God), Kenneth Haney (United Pentecostal Church International) etc&#8230; and eminent Oneness Pentecostal teacher Daniel Seagraves  who has posted his contribution to the paper on his blog &#8216;<a href="http://danielsegraves.blogspot.com/">The Center for Oneness Research and Education</a>&#8216;</p>
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