I found out that John Francis Ministries & Ruach believe in the Apostolic doctrine
2009 August 16
In answer to a post i wrote some weeks back I found out at the weekend that although John Francis did used to be a beliver in the Trinity he converted some years ago to the Apostolic doctrine of 1 God manifesting as Father, Son & Holy Ghost – rather than 3 eternally seperate persons. I also learned that the baptismal formula used at Ruach is according to Acts 2:38 in Jesus’ name (which is the correct interpretation of Matt 28:19).
I was happy to hear that such a prominent ministry was teaching biblical truth concerning the Godhead and Salvation.
This is what I heard, from a credible source, if anyone knows anything different ie a member of Ruach, pls let me know and I’ll correct/clarify/confirm accordingly.
I think that is wonderful I ve watched him a few times and wondered if he was oneness.
His website has NO statement of Faith. His office refuses to give it to me over the phone, or send it to me.
The church is money orientated wit hprosperity teaching, of whaich a pastor must splendour himself in.
Why must he have so many body guards……test the teachings against scripture and discover by prayer and discernment if this man is of God .
I would not agree with you in discrediting John Francis like that. I may not believe in all that he does, but I do believe he is genuine and not a fraudster.
JB you think so? I too am not really for discrediting people but Bishop John Francis is definitely one of those that preach false prosperity doctrines amongst other false doctrines. One of the things I saw him promote which I found quite shocking was the Jewish style of prayer! Complete with the prayer shawl, which he could send to you for a fee! That ain’t at all scriptural!
That, in my books, makes him a little iffy!
You know something Derek, Bless you for your truth quest, But I suggest you follow the biblical requirement to allows ‘The Holy Spirit’ to guide you into all truth. I can assure you Bishop is most definetely a man of God and if he has ever done or said wrong he is the first to confess that publicly.
Remember the bible says cursed is the man who trusts in flesh and makes mankind his strength, it is God we should be following and NOT people, they are vessels that God uses. Too many people waste time debating on these sites instead of trusting in the lord and winning souls for christ, and checking their own lives. Becareful you dont become sceptical and bitter and judgemental in the name of Christ, I understand you should try the spirit but you are just doing things in the flesh and clearly not trusting the Holy spirit for the truth as if you were you would know Bishop is a man of God and his ministry is based on Truth.
As for the securit guards, I have personally seen some crazy people come into the church with weapons and allsorts, Brixton can be a crazy place and I used to say why do we need peace keepers when we should trust God for protection.
The church never used to have them but then people started having money or bags taken when the owners went down for prayer, remember not everyone is saved.
Just stop finding fault and be at peace….
Apostolics, Oneness Saints, or Jesus Only as they were so unaffectionatly deemed back in the day don’t have a grasp of what we Trinity believers understand, so this post is not to bring argument but if it does, then I’ll take it at the cost of getting to the truth. I worship with oneness believers and also have family members of the oneness faith, but there is one thing that we disagree on, and I can go scripture to scripture to point out the inferences where Jesus makes statements of God his father, and so on and so on, and I will be refuted time and time again, so this isnt about that, but it is about getting an understanding. Trinity believers do believe that God exist as the Father, the Son and The Holy Ghost but we believe it as it is below.
It is ontologically impossible for there to be a “split” between any persons of the eternal Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity, simply defined, is that within the nature of the one true God there are three eternal, distinct Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three Persons are the One God. (We do not believe in a rationally contradictory God of one God in three gods or one Person in three Persons, but one God in three Persons.) While others exist in generic or species identity such as three humans sharing in humanness, God exists in numeric identity, such that each person is the one God. If all humans but three died, there would not be a trinity of humans, and the nature of humanity itself would not be diminished by the absence of one of the remaining humans. But in the nature of God, His eternal triunity indivisible. Any “split” in the Trinity would result in the destruction of the very being of God.
It is fallible humans who think the Father isn’t bonded but seperate from the son. The bond between the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost is inseparable, not only because of their deity, but because of the complete agreement between their wills, desires, mercy, justice, and love for mankind, shown in Jesus great sacrifice on the cross.
If you read Isaiah 53:4, you will find a prophetic utterance concerning Jesus Christ, it looks into the future and records the erroneous reaction of men to Christ’s humiliating death by stating this.
“Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.”
Christ’s declaration on the cross, far from being a admission of separation or abandonment, is a powerful affirmation of God’s essential unity, perfect justice, sovereign power, and matchless grace.
Brother Marcus, how aare you today? I hope you are doing well and that the Lord our God and His Son Jesus peace and grace be with you and family. There is not enough words in the dictionary to described your profound boldness and clarity in which you have just exponded the word of God.
It is quite fitting that people will believe in what evere the want. Now the problem that i have with the “JESUS ONLY ” IS that on two seperate timesI attended there services and one during his message, stop, look at me, and pointed at me and said, and i quote, This man baptised wrong he must be baptised again, for he was baptise in the trinity” end quote. Second occurence was in Alberta Canada, the pastor said, anyone that is baptise in the trinity is going to hell.I will not speak evil of any man more over the man of God, however we have missed the real essence of the word of God and is using it as how the Jews was using circumcession towards the gentiles, that in order for salvation they had to circumcise. Now i say this as important as baptisim is and necessary, It profit nothing, if we baptise either by Matt; 28:19 or acts 2:38. FOR IF WE DISOBEYED GOD THEN ALL IS LOST. I DO AGREE WITH YOUIN ALL YOU SAY.
Minister Marcus, I did not understand a word of what you have just written. We need scriptural references not theological statements. Can any of this be proven from scriptures?
I wrote something about this on another discussion on this blog (the one about an ex-oneness trying to destroy the church). But let me say this, I am Apostolic but I understand where Minister Marcus was coming from. However, the biblical examples he used didn’t prove anything. I could’ve used better biblical examples affirming the Trinity and I’m not even trintarian!
Bottom line, I believe if you have the Holy Ghost, and are living for the Lord, don’t tell me that person is going to hell because they don’t know everything about God! Scripture lends itself to both schools of thought!! Both sects use some of the same scriptures to prove their points! Us apostolics aren’t the only ones that call Jesus God, so we need to get over it!! Knowing that Jesus is God is not what’s gonna save you anyway. If that was the case, the devil would be saved. Repenting of your sins and turning to Jesus is what saves you!! God isn’t pleased with this division. It wasn’t supposed to be this way.
The catalysts for Azusa were trinitarian. So Apostolics, quit talking about Azusa street if you think it was started by a bunch of heretics. Signs and wonders took place. Don’t be like the Pharisees who said Jesus was of the devil, even though he was doing the works of His Father. You know them by their fruit! Azusa started with trinitarians! If they are bad, then Azusa was bad, then the pentecostal movement was bad! And don’t give me that “more excellent way” stuff! I know all of the Apostolic jargon. But this division is foolish and God ain’t pleased! What happened to the Unity of The Spirit. Do me a favor, prayerfully read the 1st 4 Chapters of 1Corinthians and then let’s talk.
Don’t give me that stuff about “titles” and “name” either because it’s a crock. We contradict ourselves when we call Father a title in Matt 28:19, but call it a name in Isaiah 9:6. Also in Jesus name means “in his authority”, though you should say His name!
So I’m baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost in Jesus Name!!!!
Please don’t break down the Oneness doctrine to me because I know it.
I don’t want to sound rude and arrogant, but I think we all (trinitarians and apostolics), need to get over ourselves. We need to come together. As long as we don’t elieve in the gospel of inclusion, being saved by the law, eternal security, different pathes to heaven and foolishness like that, we should be cool with one another.
I’m warning you, don’t come back at me with no junk! Lol!!! I’m laughing but I’m serious. Don’t do it, I KNOW the apostolic doctrine!
Asuza started with people who did not have the Holy Ghost – Seymour had not received the baptism of Spirit when he started preaching, but he got it!
Seymour came from Bethel Bible College in Topeka Kansas which baptised in Jesus’ Name, their is documented evidence that Charles Parham believed the Acts 2:38 message.
Seymour resisted the call of the Spirit by prophecy to accept Jesus’ name baptism and shortly after the work dried up at Azusa. God was moving by a progressive revelation. BUT the baptism in Jesus name was being done even before Asuza. And after by those who were at Asuza such as Frank Barleman author of Asuza Street – he was baptised in Jesus name.
Acts 2:38 is bible, it is the right way, no argument against it.
Bishop Francis…I like him, he’s anointed. I also like Jakes, Clarence McClendon, Rod Parsley and some others. I DON’T like Eddie Long..he is full of himself and I’ve heard him in person say things that shouldn’t be said anywhere! I Like Creflo but he has worldly functions in his church. And I’m not talking about ‘Holy Hip-Hop’ I’m talking about regular Hip-Hop (just like Eddie Long). Jakes was wrong when he had Ricky Smiley, Steve Harvey, Patti Labelle and Brian McKnight perform at Megafest. It wasn’t necessary. RIcky Smiley has some of the foulest jokes imaginable!!!
Yes there are alot of charlatans out there, but not every successful televangelist is a phony. Joseph Prince is another good one. They should all be considered innocent until biblically PROVEN guilty.
Yes I read that Parham was baptized in Jesus name. I didn’t realize the school Seymour attended baptized in Jesus’ name however. I’m also not sure if I ever heard about him resisting the Baptism in Jesus name. I’ll check up on that. However, just because they baptized in Jesus name doesn’t necessarily make them Oneness. As far as I can recall, the revelation of Jesus being God didn’t truly strike until America1913! But nevermind. Thanks for your info!
Yes, there is evidence of baptism in Jesus name and the Oneness message even before the camp meeting at which R.E. McCallister and Frank Ewart preached the Oneness of God and baptism in Jesus name.
JB, it’s not only “Aposotlic’s” who baptise in Jesus name. There are many other’s. I thought i’d just say that’s all.
I have just skimmed through this post with great interest. I am a committed Christian, I first felt the Holy Spirit when I was a young child, years later when I was 11 I committed myself to Jesus and received a powerful experience from the Holy Spirit when those around me were receiving the Toronto Blessing (the bits of the Toronto Blessing that I saw were definitely from God). I was then baptized amongst different Christians in the name of Jesus….. I have no strong doctrinal conviction as to if one should be baptized in all three names, or just Jesus name.
Over recent years I have been longing for that feeling of the presence of the Holy Spirit. A few weeks ago at an event I was privileged to be prayed for by Bishop John Francis. He picked me out from the people pushing to get to him, and he prayed and prophesied over my life.
The measure of discernment that God has given me leads me to say emphatically that HE DOES HAVE A GOD GIVEN ANNOINTING. I felt The Holy Spirit’s presence, and my life is different since that day. I am interested in his teachings.
Over recent weeks I have been pondering the Trinity. I have a soft spot for some of the teachings of Arianism. Mainly because of the ways Jesus was SENT by the father, and He says that The Comforter will come, as if The Holy Spirit was SENT. All this along with JOHN 14:28, leads me to suspect some sort of hierarchy in the Trinity…. Please study what I have mentioned and reply telling me why I am wrong, I am hungry to learn.
In summary what ever Bishop John Francis is supposed to believe/teach I believe that he has a God given anointing and is a very good man of God. I am interested that his Trinity believe are not the same as my local church or my ponderings, but find it interesting that his believes are in line with my water baptism being in Jesus name, rather than the the name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.
9One night, Paul had a vision, and in it the Lord said, “Don’t be afraid to keep on preaching. Don’t stop! 10I am with you, and you won’t be harmed. Many people in this city belong to me.” 11Paul stayed on in Corinth for a year and a half, teaching God’s message to the people.
12While Gallio was governor of Achaia, some of the Jewish leaders got together and grabbed Paul. They brought him into court 13and said, “This man is trying to make our people worship God in a way that is against our Law!”
14Even before Paul could speak, Gallio said, “If you were charging this man with a crime or some other wrong, I would have to listen to you. 15But since this concerns only words, names, and your own law, you will have to take care of it. I refuse to judge such matters.” 16Then he sent them out of the court. 17The crowd grabbed Sosthenes, the Jewish leader, and beat him up in front of the court. But none of this mattered to Gallio.
Acts 18…
3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia—remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.
1 Timothy 1
14Don’t let anyone forget these things. And with God [a] as your witness, you must warn them not to argue about words. These arguments don’t help anyone. In fact, they ruin everyone who listens to them. 15Do your best to win God’s approval as a worker who doesn’t need to be ashamed and who teaches only the true message. 16Keep away from worthless and useless talk. It only leads people farther away from God. 17That sort of talk is like a sore that won’t heal.
2 Timothy 2
20In a large house some dishes are made of gold or silver, while others are made of wood or clay. Some of these are special, and others are not. 21That’s also how it is with people. The ones who stop doing evil and make themselves pure will become special. Their lives will be holy and pleasing to their Master, and they will be able to do all kinds of good deeds.
22Run from temptations that capture young people. Always do the right thing. Be faithful, loving, and easy to get along with. Worship with people whose hearts are pure. 23Stay away from stupid and senseless arguments. These only lead to trouble, 24and God’s servants must not be troublemakers. They must be kind to everyone, and they must be good teachers and very patient.
25Be humble when you correct people who oppose you. Maybe God will lead them to turn to him and learn the truth. 26They have been trapped by the devil, and he makes them obey him, but God may help them escape.
2 Timothy 2
Check out these links (some of the videos has been removed by the way)
http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2009/04/22/deception-2-and-2%c2%bd-being-drunk-in-the-spirit-and-commanding-angels/
http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/12/09/blinded-by-false-promises/
http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2009/01/19/should-we-ever-question-what-the-man-of-god-says/
http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/11/16/the-marks-of-false-%e2%80%98christian%e2%80%99-teaching-and-teachers-part-3-the-abuse-of-biblical-numerolgy/
Bishop John Francis on the whole does not preach sound doctrine