Televangelist Douglas Goodman, imprisoned in 2004 is back in his pulpit in 2008. No public repentance, or apology, back to business…
In 2004 Pastor Douglas Goodman was pastor to one of the UK’s largest ‘non-demoninational’ (Charismatic) churches. The church had a sucessful TV ministry and Douglas and his wife Erica were very popular preachers and teachers. I must add that anyone with a true discerning spirit would have picked up on the fact that he was spiritually dry though.
Anyway, in 2004 Douglas was arrested an imprisioned for sexual assults and finanical abuse at his church. As an ‘independent’ church he was not accountable to any spiritual leadership such as a Presiding Bishop or Board of Bishops.
Not to be kept down he is now back out of the slammer and has set up a website to attract a new following.
I do believe in mercy and God being a God of a second chance. But I am saddened that after doing such a damage to the name Christian and Pastor he would be seeking the lime light again. Why start another church independently, why be preaching again? Surely, it would be much better to subject himself to spiritual authority and humble himself by sitting quietly and cultivating christian charachter. They used to have something called ‘back bench’ for people who had committed sin and needed ‘time out’. My advice would be for Douglas to find the back bench and leave the pulpit alone.
Here’s a clip for you to judge for yourself…
Posted by bozz on May 7, 2008 at 10:43 pm
He should never be in front lines again of a congregation. He is a brother in Christ due to his repentance(?) & has God’s promises but due to peoples hearts especaily outsiders… he should ‘work’ behind any ministry. Especaily for a couple of years in discipline. Lets pray he does repent & seeks after God’s heart. He is a soul still. He should step down permanetly though from pastoralship! He has caused sexual/financial sins. DB
Posted by delease on August 29, 2008 at 1:34 pm
I wholeheartedly agree with this blog.
Persons who bring shame and humiliation to the Church of Jesus Christ, and hurt and pain to those who once fully trusted them, should not just waltz back into public ministry as if it they have some special right to do so.
They should instead step aside, submit to spiritual guidance and biblical counsel and allow whatever time is necessary to rebuild their character (not reputation) and relationship with God and the local church. They should follow the advice of John the Baptist and “bring forth fruit to repentance”.
What persons like Mr. Goodman demonstrate is a pride and self-centeredness that is totally un-Christlike.
The problem though is not so much people like Goodman, but naive, unlearned and deceived believers who treat them like gods instead of the servants God intended them to be. So instead of behaving like men, they end up behaving like children, wanting their every need and craving satisfied, hence their inevitable slide into carnality.
I feel sorry for the people that such a man will now “lead”. They, like him, need our sympathy and our prayers.
I agree with your blog that someone who has committed sexual and finacial sin should not be shunned but restored,. However, he first must be made to understand that what God wants in his people and His Church is “holiness without which no man will see the Lord”.
May God lead him to repenatance and renewal.
Posted by jenny on July 10, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Why should he not be in the frontline of a congregation God ordainshim and put him where he is, not man. If he was quilty then he has paid the price, if he were inocent then he has still paid a price whilst he was behind bars he was doing God’s will just like peter. God says it is not for us to be judges but we should show compassion and love towardsone another (there is only one ultimate JUDGE)! The scriptures says “We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against prinpalities, against pwers, against the ruler of the darkness of this world. against spriitual wickedeness in high places” Neither one of us is except from that and whilst we continue to condemn our own the enemy is very happy. Pray without ceasing for one another especially when we fall.
and remember we fall down to get up for the saints are only sinners who fell down, but we have a duty to help them back up again. God Bless You.
Posted by jesusblogger on July 10, 2009 at 5:40 pm
@Jenny, thanks for your comment.
Paul the Apostle laid down criteria for the leadership in Titus 1:5-10, he said: -
5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, 6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. 7 For the overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. 10 For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers.
Posted by jenny on July 10, 2009 at 9:06 pm
Paul was an Apostle, Jesus said he without sin cast the first stone. We all fall short of Gods Glory he has not given up on us. We are all still on this planet and look how many atrosities is happening all over the world, if the Divine Father did not have love for us it could be a different matter. It is so we must love our fellow man God Bless You
Posted by jenny on July 10, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Paul was an Apostle, Jesus said he without sin cast the first stone. We have all fallen short of Gods Glory and he still loves us. So we should love our fellow man for inside of him is the spirit of God.
Posted by Anonymous on September 21, 2008 at 12:08 am
He has served his sentence and it is not for us to judge…
Posted by Annonymous on December 29, 2008 at 5:01 pm
As it was said in an earlier blog, he is a sould and due to repentance is still a child of the God. God came for the sinners and not those that are well. For those of us that has said he should no longer be on the pulpit, is this ours or Gods will. I beleive as christains we should trust that God knows and is in control. we should trust in Him amd Him only
Posted by Ex member of VCC on December 29, 2008 at 5:08 pm
All I want to add to the above said is that members of the congregation who made the choice to leave should not be treated as outcasts. They love the Lord and did not feel that the pastors actions were beneficial for their christain growth. As the father of the prodigal son waited and watched for his sons return, so should be the actions of a pastor who has lost some of his flock.
Posted by Ben on December 30, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Pastor Goodman repented and was forgiven by God, we should also forgive our fellow christians. God is a forgiving God.
Many Blessings
Posted by Looking for forgiveness on July 3, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Where is his public repentance? If we have not heard any repentance from the “pastor”, then how do we know that he ever has. This man (and his wife) want your cash.
Posted by murr on January 4, 2009 at 2:08 pm
As we know we are all sinners, sin is in the heart everyone of us think sinful, even murderous thoughts. Pastor Goodman like many other born again christian church pastors are all con men making a rich living out of naive believers, I was one too, used to give all my money to his church but the Lord opened my eyes to the lies and deceipt. The kingdom of God is within youuuuuuuuuuuu
Posted by Anonymous on January 4, 2009 at 10:43 pm
I attended Victory Christian Centre, but I don’t think it is right for People to point their fingers at Someone’s mistakes…but if anyone of us doesnt have sins, let him/her be the first to throw a stone!
Posted by jesusblogger on January 4, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Yes we have all sinned, but we do not all hold high positions of authority and then go straight back into a pulpit without repentance and confession and public apology. Has Pastor Goodman been through this process before seeking to build up a church again? Who is his spiritual covering? Who is he accountable to? Does the church have charitable status? Etc etc…
Posted by Darren on January 23, 2009 at 1:13 am
He continues because this is HIS business. His desire is to live fat of the ignorance of others. I was once ignorant of his schemes but now no better. He rents a mansion off the back of the givers, spends all their money lavishly and does NOT genuinely care for ANYONE but himself. This man is a SHAME to christianity and it is only a matter of time before he ends up worst then the last time. People like him (those who abuse others for gain) make me sick, and give the church a BAD name although his church is more like a social club. When will people wake up? And my name is Darren Louis for those of you who may know, like I care!
Posted by Marie on February 5, 2009 at 2:42 pm
I was a member of VCC and when I questioned Mr Douglas ( I refuse to acknowledge him as a pastor)about the scandal at a staff meeting, I was hounded by other church members. Yes its true we are all sinners and yes he without sin cast the first stone. I went to court to hear first hand what the allegations were, and was completely ignored by Erica and their followers, it is a social club, and most of the members are in competition, I myself saw and heard things that were not of God. Mr Douglas was not repentent, he still has the cheek to preach the gospel. I had been a dedicated follower of the faith ministries, since leaving I have been to three other churches and they are all the same. I have now found out that religion is the cause of all wars and all men are liars. I ask anyone reading this to check out bible-truths.com and you will see the truth about so called men of God. May the Lord open your spiritual eyes to the truth
Posted by jesusblogger on February 6, 2009 at 1:16 am
That is a shame to hear. However, I don’t agree that all of God’s shepherds are all wolves. Yes, Paul said wolves would be in sheep clothing, but there are some who are not hirelings and are good shepherds. I can vouch for my own pastor as one such example.
Also, I checked out the website you mentioned, I do not agree with all of the doctrine on it, and to anyone who would want to follow it I don’t endorse it.
Posted by Tina on February 10, 2009 at 3:41 pm
I am so saddened by the comments of those who attended the church of this false prophet, we should not judge him as it is not our place to judge, as God exposed him the first time, if he is still doing evil in the sight of God and killing Gods children he will be exposed again and a place in the pittof hell is awaiting him.
Not all churches are this way, and the church I go to certainly isn’t, and that is Bethel United Church of Jesus Christ Apostolic, we have churches all over England and internationally and we live as the apostols lived. So Marie let this invitation from God lead you to a church that your heart is yearning for, and you will find God there thats. And that is an open invitation to all who want to accept it, there is a God and there is a true church of God. God bless you.
Posted by marie on February 11, 2009 at 9:21 pm
All men are liars and I would have said the same thing too, when I was being brainwashed by the church. In luke it says tha the Kingdom of God is within you, why would we need mere man to teach us anything. The reason you do not agree with bible-truths is your spiritaul eyes are not opened, because you are following man. I do not go on the site any longer myself as I am led by the Spirit of truth that is within me. You cannot tell me you have prayed and studied this site, it took me weeks months and years to read it. At first I was shocked but then I was drawn back to it. I was given so much revelation at the time,now God has moved me on. The best news was that there is no Hell. May God open your spiritual eyes
Posted by Looking for forgiveness on July 3, 2009 at 3:19 pm
If you mean all people are liars, then I would have to agree to some extent, but to single out a single sex is wrong – his wife Erica is just as guilty of lies and sin as Douglas himself.
Posted by Urs on February 22, 2009 at 5:26 am
That is exactly what satan wants. To stop the Word from being preached.
Pastor Douglas knows that his Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ has commanded him to preach the Gospel (Good News) to all. So even though he falls to the ground Christ is faithful to pick him up so he can continue the journey while perfecting his ways, thoughts and renewing of his mind in Christ Jesus and according to the Word of God.
Please remember that it is the Anointing of the Holy Spirit that breaks the yoke.
My conclusion to this matter is: Pastor Douglas always continue in the good work, take charge, stand steadfast and firm, preach, preach and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and delight yourself in the Lord. We are not better than you especially me.
But one thing is for sure and that is our God and Lord Jesus is Faithful and Just to complete that good work that He started in us.
This is our Hope.
This is our Faith.
This is our Love.
Posted by Looking for forgiveness on July 3, 2009 at 3:22 pm
If this is true, then he needs to acknowledge his sin to his congregation, not just carry on as if nothing has happened. If he does not do this, then he does not show that he has learnt by his mistakes and therefore cannot possibly teach us right from wrong, godliness from sin, and what can we take from his bible teachings?
Posted by Ex-VCC member, never to return there but has good ongoing relationship with God on February 28, 2009 at 5:04 pm
I agree that it is not for us to judge and that we are all sinners. However, it is a fact that anyone who holds a position of authority is held accountable for their actions while in that post. It is also a fact that we would not expect someone in such a post to be doing the exact opposite of the values and doctrines which they claim they hold dear and in which they claim to believe. This would quite rightly be viewed as hypocrisy. To cite a ‘world’ example of this, we remember the outcry of hypocrisy that occured last year when Elliot Spitzer, Governor of New York and previously, New York State Attorney General for some 8 or 9 years, who had spent years pursuing white collar crime, most notably on Wall Street, was found to frequently use the services of a so called ‘high class’ brothel. His immediate resignation after the story broke was accepted as no one felt it appropriate for a man holding Mr Spitzer’s post or position in society to remain in office after the actions he took. Now if we see this as being right, how does this differ from Douglas Goodman’s case?
In any event, one has to question if in a post such as Pastor one can allow one’s lusts, lies and deceit to take hold and in fact reign over one’s intellectual knowledge and more importantly personal knowledge of God, such that it brings the modern church and Christianity into such disrupt IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN (which does not glorify or edify God in the least), then it would seem that you could not have had any great love or more importantly, fear of God in the first place. This lack of fear of God placed Douglas Goodman behind bars.
Moreover, if a man can do wrong knowing that God is watching, and in front of his children, thus setting a bad example for those children, that man would not have a care about the views of his congregation or the wider public.
Therefore his return to the pulpit has more to do with this, than it has to do with the fact that the Bible says that a man can fall seven times but should rise back up.
To those who defend him I say this:
1. his actions YEARS AGO still remain the (negative) topic of discussion today, as evidenced by the many comments submitted in recent times, including this month in 2009! All of the comments have arisen out of the WRONG a christian pastor did; not the good. I stand corrected but I thought we are meant to be a light in the world.
2. no decent human being (and they ARE decent human beings out there who are not Christians) would have engaged in the sexual predatorial actions or financial abuse that Douglas Goodman engaged in. We should not have to read the Bible to know and acknowledge certain actions are wrong. We just need to be selfless enough to put ourselves in the shoes of the recipient of such action – if apparently we cannot sensibly work out that our actions are wrong and immoral.
In conclusion Christianity and God have long had too many Pastors (male I might add) bring the name of God into disrepute and I am confident that God (though I cannot speak for God) would love to find a generation that is able to step up to the plate, do what He calls them to do without allowing their flesh to overtake to such an extent that it defeats most of what they had previously accomplished in God’s name. In short, Christianity as it is meant to be – ie without a bitter taste. We know that we all remember Jimmy Swaggart as prostitute-visiting tele-evangelist, not for the content of his sermons – which is a great shame!
Posted by Looking for forgiveness on July 3, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Although I agree with most of what you say here, the “(male I might add)” comment does not belong here. Again, I would point out the Erica is as culpable for the financial scandal as Douglas. This is a pair of self serving hypocrites, not just one man.
Posted by Ex-VCC member, never to return there but has good ongoing relationship with God on February 28, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Marie – I would like to address some of the comments in both of your posts.
1. With reference to your second posting, all men are not liars, in the same way that all women are not gold-diggers. I do not think that I have to put any further case to defend men. The fact remains that there is good and bad in every race, sex, class, generation, faith etc etc. As a Christian, having a balanced view in life is demonstrative of having hope and of having God within us.
2. In my opinion, no-one at VCC was brain-washed. Members of the congregation could be classified in several ways:
a. Those who knew nothing at all of the wrong-doing;
b. Those who suspected some wrong-doing was occuring,either through common sense or things that seemed odd, or through the Holy Spirit, but did not know what to do and so did nothing;
c. Those who knew for certain of the wrong-doing, although not participants themselves and either did nothing or did not know what to do;
d. Those who participated in the wrong-doing unintentionally and on realising this, either did nothing or did not know what to do (for example a member works in the church and handles the counting and recording of the tithes and offering,financial records etc. If this member recognises that a cheque, written by one of the pastors,has been placed in an envelope on which the money is declared as ‘tithe’,is actually a cheque from the Church’s own bank account, but records it as tithe because when she queries it with someone senior to her in the church, she is instructed to do so and to mind her own business)
e. Those who actively participated in the wrong-doing and did not care that it was wrong so long as no-one found out or did not care EVEN IF people found.
I do not know what race you are from but I am black and what I know of some of my own race is that they will sometimes, though not always, be aware or suspect wrong-doing and do nothing, yet cry innocence or brainwashing when a scandal occurs instead of acknowledging that they too attended the church for their own reasons, possibly the ’social’aspect of VCC which,false though it is, no other church in the UK can claim to have with the level of success of VCC. As you said yourself, you saw and heard things that were not of God. Question is, what did you do?
4. All faith churches are the not same. There are some that are genuinely trying their best to do what God called them to do. But do remember and have consideration for the fact that all churches are all run by man and therefore subject to man’s genuine failings. I say ‘genuine’ as I feel that in Goodman’s case he fostered and encouraged his lusts, lies and deceit and encouraged others to do the same. Most of us have shame with our wrong-doing and try to prevent others especially those closest to us from discovering it; we don’t actively seek out other to assist us in its enlargement!
Paul’s letters to the Church are a testament of the fact that the church will have some failings, and encourages us to recognise these failings and actively address them.
5. With regard to the website that your cited, unfortunately, the person who is being deceived is you. I do not need to read all of what is written on the site in question to know this. In fact your comment alone and I quote: “The best news was that there is no hell”, indicates that you, and others who read and believe what is written on that site, are truly being deceived. If you have no other form of determining truth, the one fail-safe determinant that you should always apply is: IS IT WRITTEN/DECLARED IN THE BIBLE? In fairness to Douglas Goodman, he always told the congregation to find out what the Bible says for themselves, and not to rely on what a pastor says!
So, THE BIBLE tells you clearly that there is Heaven and there is Hell. ANYTHING OR ANYONE who contradicts clear statements (read in context) in the Bible is themselves pernicious and therefore should be avoided. Clear Biblical references to Hell’s existence can be found if you look for them. Get a, or use your concordance but in the meantime, here are two good starting places: Jesus himself speaks of Hell in Mark 9:43-44 and in Matthew 25:31-46. And even though my intellect and or emotions have in the past caused me to feel disagreement with a couple of aspects of what I have read in the Bible, my reverential belief in God tells me that the words uttered by Jesus are never to be challenged.
I would encourage you not to permit the wrong of one man, or even several men, to colour your view of God’s word and God’s people in general, remembering that all of God’s people and in fact all human beings were born into sin and are sinners – just like you and me.
If we had our eyes focused on our God, while we would have been hugely disappointed with Douglas and Erica Goodman’s deliberate and planned actions and the impact that those actions have had, and while we would have all felt used for our money and angry at its misuse, we should still be able to state categorically and without anger, that our God, the creator of Heaven and earth IS STILL our God; and His son, who died and rose from the grave so that we may live and have life abundantly IS STILL our Saviour.
Douglas Goodman, his wife, and all of their allies CANNOT prevent me from believing in my Father or my Lord and Saviour or my Comforter because they all exist and NEVER disappoint. My entire existence relies upon this as ABSOLUTE FACT and will not be moved from it despite the landmines that are planted for my destruction by Satan(some in the form of supposed ‘christians’….smile).
God is faithful and He is just. We know that God tells us that this race is not for the swift; meaning that it can be a long and hard race…and from this we can surmise many things, not least that there will be situations and disappointments that we simply will not like and can do nothing about. But I rely on this race ultimately being a fully rewarding race, even if the majority of that reward, comes at the end…. However I can have a rewarding time until my end comes if I rest in Him, if I put unbearable situations to Him for Him to resolve, if I ask Him for His strength to uphold me in difficult times.
I would encourage you to take your feelings about all that has happened in the past and at the new churches you have visited, to the throne and ask God to help you forgive what transpired, to help you put it and leave it in the past, and to guide you to His truth and to where He wants you to fellowship – and that may well be somewhere that you would not have ordinarily chosen yourself.
May God bless and keep you in the meantime.
Posted by marie on March 2, 2009 at 4:59 pm
To x-vcc member never to return.
I would like to say this. You must know that the bible was written by MAN. The fact of the matter is this, if you go back to the original scripts hell was never mentioned in the old testament. Hades was, and is known to be a place of the dead, where bodies were burnt. This is what the old testement declares. Please give me a scripture that says anything about hells fire as its being preached by so called men and women of God
The king james version is the biggest joke of all interpretations, (I beg you to go and research what king james was all about) Also I have to laugh at your statement quote: all men are not liars, Well name me one person in the whole of the universe that has not lied? Now what does it say in the very last chapter of revelations.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful,and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
That means all of us will spend time in the lake of fire for spiritual cleansing. Note it says we will have our part, it does not say for eternity.
Thing is you said there is good and bad in every nation, but the thing is that is not what the bible says now is it? It says we have all sinned. Look what
Jesus says: Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
You see. My problem was I always studied the scriptures for my self with the help of the Holy Spirit and that is why I can say we are all liars.
I may be wrong but I am feeling in my Spirit that you are a woman. You are contridicting yourself all the time. You are telling me not to judge and yet you are judging me. I am a woman. I gave my name because I know who I am in Christ and I am a part of the Human Race a child of The Most High do you think Jesus studies colour.
You quote scriptures on what Jesus said have a study on this one. Mat 13:34 Jesus told the crowds all these things in parables. He did not tell them anything without using a parable.
Do you understand He was speaking in Parables you now look up and see what that means. He did not tell them anything without using a Parable. All the Hell that Jesus spoke was a Parable please God.
When I was in the church system I was the biggest hypocrite, Praise the Lord He has set me free from man’s interpretations. You come across as a nice enough person but God is big enough to work in all of His creation. I will leave you with These.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore, we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially of those that believe. (not just Christians)
“God is operating ALL in all” (I Cor. 12:6)
“Yet ALL is of God” (II Cor. 5:18)
“For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, ARE ALL THINGS: to Whom be glory for ever. Amen”
WOW! What a marvelous revelation of Spiritual Truth! So, again, why is there brimstone in the lake of fire?” BECAUSE GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF IS IN THIS FIRE! God IS this fire, this spiritual “CONSUMING FIRE” (Heb. 12:29). THIS FIRE IS NOT ONLY SPIRITUAL; IT IS DIVINE! THE LAKE OF FIRE IS DIVINE SPIRITUAL FIRE FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN TO PURGE, PURIFY, CLEANSE, AND HEAL ALL IMPURITIES OF ALL HUMANITY!!! Is this not the best news you’ve heard all day?
JESUS CHRIST DID NOT DIE ON THE CROSS, IN VAIN! JESUS CHRIST WILL NOT FAIL TO SAVE THE WHOLE WORLD! JESUS CHRIST SO LOVED THE “WORLD” THAT HE DIED FOR ITS SALVATION! JESUS CHRIST WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO HIMSELF. JESUS CHRIST HAS BEEN GIVEN ALL POWER AND JUDGMENT IN BOTH HEAVEN AND EARTH. EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, EVER TONGUE WILL CONFESS, EVERY PERSON WILL REPENT, EVERY MAN, WOMAN, AND CHILD WILL BE PURGED AND PURIFIED BY GOD’S ALL CONSUMING DIVINE FIRE FROM HEAVEN!
Make no mistake about it. It is by means of FIRE that all mankind will ultimately be saved! God has spoken it:
NOW THAT IS THE GOSPEL THAT JESUS WANTS TO BE PREACHED.
Love in Him Marie.
Posted by Elise on March 5, 2009 at 7:11 am
Douglas Goodman made it EVERYONE’S business when he decided to abuse his pastorial powers. The man is disgusting, has shown no remorse what ever and will do exactly the same thing again if he isn’t doing so already.
Did any of you who are defending him actually attend the trial? If so what were your thoughts when in summation his Barrister likened him to Jesus Christ?
We all amke mistakes none of us is perfect, had he shown genuine remorse, had a period of self imposed exile if you will; upon release, attending the church but not taking an active role. Then taken to the pulpit acknowledging his wrong doing, apologising to his wife, children and congregation, then I might be willing to cut him some slack.
Instead he has carried on business as usual trying to paint himself the victim instead of the aggressor.
He is arrogant and his behaviour is in no way christian.
Posted by Ex-VCC member, never to return there but has good ongoing relationship with God on March 8, 2009 at 1:14 am
Marie
You say you believe that your spiritual eyes have been opened but each of your posts has demonstrated some ill-considered thoughts and ill-explained views.
On the matter of whether or not hell exists, hell is generally used in the Old Testament to translate the Hebrew word ‘Sheol’, which means the place of the dead, without reference to any form of happiness. However, in the New Testament the word hell is used to translate two words: 1. Hades, generally meaning the same as Sheol, and Gehenna, the place of retribution for evil deeds. If you are having trouble believing that our God would ever create a specific place called hell, turn your Bible to Matthew 25:41; again Jesus’ words: “…. Depart from me ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” So hell is meant for the devil and his angels. Where in the Bible does it tell you that having been in hell for a while, the devil and his angels are reunited with God to remain with Him for ever?
My perception is that hell is not only for the devil and his angels but also for anyone whose every fibre is consistently geared towards or engaged in questioning, contradicting, obstructing, resisting and deliberately disobeying God’s word and to elevating themselves above our God, with a hope of gaining His glory – consciously or unconsciously. I can find no Biblical reference that leads me to believe that we are to be deemed sufficiently bad to be ‘dipped’ into the lake of fire for a defined period of time only to join God later when He believes we have suffered enough and are now, as you put it “purged, purified, cleansed and healed” for at no point in time are we EVER going to be worthy/good enough. It is for this very reason that Jesus Christ was sent and His blood shed!
My understanding is that hell is a place of permanent and never-ending suffering and after years of God’s grace, mercy and patience, once sentenced to be there, there is no return for us. Matthew 25:31-46 speaks of a judgement of separation, sheep (the saved, who are still imperfect) on his right, goats (the lost) on his left – no fence straddling now. So at this stage we are clearly categorised into groups of one or the other with verse 46 concluding with “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment; but the righteous into eternal life.”
Most poignantly for me though is that these verses appear directly after the Parable of the Talents and in my opinion there is clear correlation of theme between Matthew 25 verses 14-30 and verses 31-46, in terms of what happens when judgment comes in both of these scripture narratives. I raise this as you said in your post: “he did not telling them anything without using a parable”. While I agree that Jesus’ teachings were in part through parables your Bible will also show you that many ‘red words’ in scripture are clearly not in the form of parables, but are nonetheless His instructions on how we should live ie Matthew15, 18, 23 etc, etc.
Now on to the matter of Revelation 21. Briefly, in my opinion Revelation 21:8 speaks of sinners who have shown, on a consistent basis, their rebellion against God through their lifestyle of sin. Yes we all sin, but as I indicated earlier some make it their daily routine to deliberately do everything that God says NOT to do. This is distinct from Christians who, even against their own will, do wrong – for that as we know is the inherent nature of someone who is not God.
You may argue that there is no distinction between a lifestyle of sin and doing wrong against our will. So to put it another way: I am speaking of one person who is actively choosing to do wrong, whereas the other (saved) is actively trying to ‘die to himself’ so as to do as God says BUT who will fail at times for he is not God.
So with this in mind, what can we conclude Revelation 21:8 is telling us? Try this on for size: It is those who are fully cognizant of their daily wrong-doing, who are revelling in the pleasures of their sin, and it further perpetuation and who are in no way trying to change, and who do not acknowledge our Lord as Lord and Saviour, who “shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone”, with ‘part’ meaning ‘place’ in this instance.
Read Revelation 21:3-4. Now, here’s another (rhetorical) question for you: do you not think that the men to which verses 3 and 4 refer had some level of sin themselves, given that we all sin? Yet He that sat upon the throne says of those very same men in verse 7: “He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.” Verse 8: “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable….” etc etc, meaning those WHO HAVE NOT overcometh, “shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone.” I think it is worthwhile pointing out that even when we overcome we are not going to be perfect, as that is impossible with man.
In short, the sinner, who has not accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and who has not made any real effort to turn away from his sinful ways will come to this terrible end.
If you don’t like the King James Version of these verses, read Revelation 21:1-8 in the Living Bible, or the Message. Better yet, try the Amplified – this version should allow you to see my interpretation of these verses.
Regardless of which Bible we use, I think if you had read at least verses 6-8 in tandem in any version you would have arrived at the same interpretation that I arrived at. I don’t know about you but in Church and in Bible School I was told of the fallacy of plucking scriptures out of context to back one’s point of view. Instead, we should read the preceding verses of the scripture that we wish to quote and more often than not the following verses too (if relevant to the same subject/point), so as to obtain a full understanding of what is truly being said. I am therefore not surprised that you have taken a lot of what I have said in my first blog to you out of context.
Given the distinct differences in our interpretation of this one scripture (Revelation 21:8) and on whether Hell appeared in the OT and to what it referred, rather than spend my time challenging all of what you have said in your post that I disagree with – which is a lot – I think we are better off concluding that we will have to agree to disagree. You live your life by the ‘teachings’ on bibletruth.com which clearly you are happy with – although you do come across as an angry woman for having reached enlightenment – and I will live mine according to the Bible.
Time is the great revealer…and each of us will see where our beliefs take us. I do sincerely hope we both make it to Heaven, for I do not believe that my Lord and Saviour shed blood, suffered immense pain and humiliation, unspeakable treatment culminating in His crucifixion for me or any of God’s children (those actively following Him and His word) to spend time – short, long or indefinite – in the lake of fire! John 5:24 (again Jesus’ own words) attest to this; which you can read in any version of the Bible of your choice.
One last, minor word, Marie. Life is about choice. God allows us the freedom to make choices in life. Like you are choosing to follow the ‘teachings’ of bibletruth.com and I am choosing to follow the Bible. On this basis, I can chose whether or not to put my name on any website on the internet….in the same way that you chose, without any of us commenting on it, to put your forename only on the blog. The putting of my name on a site – or not – as was the case, does not mean that I do not know my God, or who I am in Him. I am very clear on both of these matters.
May God, the God of Heaven and Earth, guide you to Him.
Posted by Ex-VCC member, never to return there but has good ongoing relationship with God on March 8, 2009 at 1:24 am
Elise
I attended Douglas Goodman’s first trial and heard some terrible things…enough to prevent me from returning to the second trial but I had heard that his barrister had likened him to Christ. At that point I thought, if there was grace intended for you to go free a second time, that comment will now certainly negate it for none of us is ever good enough or our suffering sufficient for us to be compared to our Lord and Saviour.
My understanding is that Douglas Goodman still claims that he is innocent and so to those who defend him I ask: does one seek repentance for that which one purports not to have done?
Despite my comments today and earlier this month, for their own sakes I hope that the Goodman family all repent of their sins and seek God’s forgiveness – like each of us should.
Posted by marie on March 14, 2009 at 4:41 pm
EX VCC member.
When you say that you KNOW there is a hell, what you are saying is that you have seen the word “hell” in the KJV bible and men have interpreted for you what that word hell means. You like the idea that you and others are special and will be saved, while the majority of men women, pregnant women, little boys and little girls by the billions and billions who have NEVER EVEN HEARD OF THIS JESUS YOU ARE SPEAKING OF THAT LOVES US SOOOOO MUCH, will be put into some fabled hellhole of real fire the have their eyeballs burned out without water, without mercy, without hope, for ALL ETERNITY!!!!!
This Christian doctrine (borrowed from the most barbaric heathen and pagan religions) is the most damnable heresy to every be taught in the history of the universe. I am so utterly amazed that Christians by the million upon millions not only swallow this hogwash of satanic evil, but actually revel and gloat with joy over the idea that most of humanity will be tortured by fire for trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions (you know, even 3-4 SECONDS of having one’s flesh burned with real fire is excruciatingly painful–what human father with a CARNAL MIND even, would torture his own children by burning their flesh with FIRE. We put people like that in JAIL, but Christians WORSHIP such a fiendish monster!), and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions of billions of quadrillions of centuries, never, ever, ever, coming to an end–pregnant women, little boys and little girls, just being burned and tortured day and night for trillions and trillions…..
Kinda makes one SICK IN HIS HEART AND STOMACH DOESN’T IT?
Maybe you need to repent of ever believing that our loving Heavenly Father would treat His worst enemies this badly, let along His CHILDREN! Think about it, practically no one else has ever taken the time to even consider the enormity of torturing people with fire ENDLESSLY! Jesus said that we should LOVE OUR ENEMIES. Do you really believe that God is a HYPOCRITE and tells us to do one thing and then HE does the opposite by HATING MOST OF HUMANITY FOR ALL ETERNITY. He would be “AN ETERNAL GOD OF HATE”!
Eternal torture is the most damnable lie even concocted by Satan, I will give you the gospel in four verses:
“God WILLS that ALL mankind be SAVED” (I Tim. 2:4). But will His will be done?
“Thy WILL B-E DONE…” (Mat. 6:10).
“GOD I-S LOVE” (I John 4:8). But won’t love fail when it comes to saving everyone.
“LOVE N-E-V-E-R FAILS” (I Cor. 13:8).
Even a child can understand these simple truths of God and of His plan and of His Love for all humanity. How could we have EVER DOUBTED IT?
May God be with your spirit as you seek out these profound truths of God’s Word.
Sincerely in Christ’s service,
Marie.
PS I cannot understand how you came to the understanding that I am angry. I Praise our Holy Father every day knowing He is not another barbaric dictator like some we read about and are disgusted with. Saddam to mention but one.
Posted by jesusblogger on March 14, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Marie,
I edited your post cutting out the information after the P.S., could you keep it concise and post links to the information–rather than cut and paste—it gets a bit spammy, and makes it hard for others to respond.
Also, I do believe there is a HEAVEN and HELL. And those who do not believe in Jesus and repent are destined for HELL FIRE. This is why JESUS died – to save us from HELL FIRE.
Posted by Looking for forgiveness on July 3, 2009 at 3:54 pm
I also believe in Heaven and Hell, however, I do not believe that all non-Christians will burn in hell for eternity. I believe that our God is an understanding God and will not send good people to hell just because they never knew the word of Jesus. Muslim, Christians and Jews all believe in the same God – Hindu’s in a different way believe in a God (or Gods). Our way (Christianity) is the best way for us, but I believe that ours is just one way to everlasting life. Different people and cultures have seen the light differently and will not be punished for this – all religions (in the end) come down to the same thing – do nothing to harm your fellow man. Teachings may differ, but those that condone, or even encourage harm do not correctly follow their own writings. Above all GOD IS LOVE.
Posted by jesusblogger on July 7, 2009 at 6:21 pm
That is what you believe. But it is not what the Bible teaches.
Posted by Educational Matters on March 14, 2009 at 10:17 pm
I used to know Douglas and Erica Goodman over 20 years ago. They were as pretentious then as they are now. Douglas could barely read at that point and his wife didn’t even have one GCSE to her name. I do not know how Douglas and Erica feel about his stint in prison, but I know (as a prison officer) that he would have had lots of time to read, think and gain a Level 1 qualification.
Posted by Ex-VCC member, never to return there but has good ongoing relationship with God on March 14, 2009 at 11:47 pm
Marie
A few things:
1. Would it be possible for you to refer me to me where in ANY of my posts I said I like the idea that anyone would go to hell?? Alas you cannot, Marie. You are attributing words to me that I did not say. Clearly you, like so many other people who are emotional about their views instead of spiritual, cannot draft a logical argument without jumping hastily to the wrong assumptions or conclusions – of which there are many in your post earlier today. Equally you continue to quote scripture out of context and for me thisdemonstrates a lack of depth of understanding.
2. Your belief – of spiritual cleansing in fire – sounds like purgatory to me. In the event that others reading this post may not know, purgatory in itself was man-made – practiced today by Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches,was practiced by the Catholic church back in the Middle Ages. At that time many Catholic leaders used this belief for fundraising. They sold indulgences – fast-pass tickets out of purgatory which the living could buy for the dead. Reformers such as Martin Luther said this was exploitive nonsense and thereafter the Protestant church came into being.
3. Again, I will not address the vast majority of your post as we will be here forever debating various points upon which we will never agree, some if not all of which are unrelated to the initial topic ie Douglas Goodman.
4. Therefore, AS I SAID BEFORE, we will have to agree to disagree. I am happy with my own views which are derived directly from the Bible. Thus I conclude this my third and last post on this matter (of whether or not hell exists) with Titus 3:9-11….
JESUSBLOGGER – I am pleased to see that at least one other individual reads the Bible that I read..:-) I bought Edward Donnelly’s Biblical Teaching on the Doctrines of Heaven and Hell (ISBN 0851518117) this week and, if you are interested, I am happy to let you know what I conclude when I have finished it (perhaps under a separate topic instead of under the ‘Douglas Goodman’ topic.)
Best wishes to you both.
Posted by jesusblogger on March 15, 2009 at 12:53 am
Bless you Ex-VCC Member, please do let me know your conclusions I am happy to write a post about it under another heading.
Posted by Ex-VCC member, never to return there but has good ongoing relationship with God on March 15, 2009 at 12:27 am
Dear Educational Matters – not enough time it would seem as Goodman knows not what a public apology or ’stepping down’ (as it was called in Victory) entails!
It is interesting that you raise the matter of literacy with the Goodmans. When the rumours that had been circulating around VCC regarding how Goodman had conducted himself with several women came into the public domain, I did have to ask: “What is so enticing about this man? He is already married, clearly he is not widely read, regularly uses incorrect grammar and cannot hold a discussion on anything without making some sexual innuendo or comment; how is it possible for any woman to be drawn to a man like this?”
To this day I do still genuinely wonder what could possibly make Douglas Goodman a man worthy of a woman’s attention.
Posted by Darren on March 15, 2009 at 10:36 am
Ex-VCC Member: To this day I do still genuinely wonder what could possibly make Douglas Goodman a man worthy of a woman’s attention.
The answer is quite easy, MONEY and POWER. Woman often then to be drawn to a man with money and status/power.
Posted by marie on March 15, 2009 at 4:49 pm
EX-VCC member and jesusblogger.
May His peace be with us all.
Posted by Ex-VCC member, never to return there but has good ongoing relationship with God on March 15, 2009 at 10:21 pm
Will do, Jesusblogger.
Posted by Educational Matters on March 24, 2009 at 2:12 am
A lot of modern “Christianity” is really shallow. Looking good, “prosperity”, naming and claiming, living large and having “a lot of things”. This always seems to be viewed as God’s blessings. Douglas and Erica represent a new style of Christianity which prioritises personality over works or acts of faith and service. When did you last hear a message about love? True agape love, brotherly and sisterly love.
People are drawn to the Goodmans because of what they represent: the good life, the happy marriage, the big house, the sleek lifestyle. Not too different to most people’s wishes. I prefer an alternative. Modesty, faith and humility, a daily relationship with God and lots of prayer, praise and acts of service. I do not look up to the Goodmans, even though they are my brother and sister in the Lord.
Posted by Ex-VCC member, never to return there but has good ongoing relationship with God on March 25, 2009 at 2:51 am
I think anyone with an ounce of substance and Godly discernment could not really look up to the Goodmans or consider either of them worthy of emulation. I never trusted Douglas Goodman and I felt that his wife was cold-hearted,did good to look good and so disingenous……just my view though.
Without a doubt my heart and head both favour faith and reliance on God, altruistic acts of service, prayer and praise, modesty and humility and so consequently I find myself gravitating towards and aligned with individuals who also demonstrate these qualities. However, I do not actually see anything wrong with a good life, a happy marriage, a big house or presenting myself to the best of my ability (without being wasteful or proud) provided that these things follow (and are never instead of) the former things mentioned at the start of this paragraph.
We know Psalm 37:16 states “a little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked,” but without a doubt God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him and so some of His rewards will be financial increase and financial miracles – Malachi makes this plain and clear,as does Proverbs 13:22 and other scriptures.
If God has given me the strength, ability and drive to achieve ‘worldly’ things to better myself and those close to me, (as well as to assist TBN, Benny Hinn and other ministries), as long as these worldy things/money are NOT at the cost of my continued relationship with God or the real important Godly things, and they are not achieved to flaunt in front of others, why would I chose not to have them? Why would I consider that I am to have a mediocre marriage, job, life, etc?
I was told as a child that I have one life (chance) on this earth and I am to make the most of it; I think it is honouring God to attempt to do so in every possible way – none of which involves pomposity, compromise or forsaking entrenched Godly principles and morals for worldly gain….or for rich friends in so-called high places. I think that as with most things,’balance’ should be our watchword, which therefore means remembering and acting on the fact that some of the blessings poured out unto us are to be shared or simply planted in the lives of the saved and unsaved, and not hoarded for our pleasure or just to ‘live large’.
Posted by Tony Isaac on March 26, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Hey guys,
I have been following all the comments on this issue with Pastor Goodman and I greatly fear that we have begun to push the pendulum far. Which one of us here is without sin? Or is it because no one caught you staring at the legs of your pretty colleague and made it national news? Or no one knew about the time you lied to your boss when you overspent your lunch hour?
I do understand the fact that one would really feel betrayed by such actions of one in the position of authority but we have to realise that his sin was against God and not against us. And if we keep travelling down this road, we could end up being bitter and harbour unforgiveness, which I do not think would help our christian race.
Let’s not forget that the bible admonishes us to treat others the way we would like to be treated. He could have settled his account with God, and God being the righteous Judge that He is has completely forgiven and forgotten about Pastor Goodman’s indiscretion. I suggest we do the same.
Marie, can I please just say; there is nothing new under the sun and there are more important things in christianity than hell or heaven. What is most important is having a relationship with God and once that is properly in place, the rest will follow.
God bless
Posted by Looking for forgiveness on July 3, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Douglas and Erica did not just look at a pretty woman’s legs or overspent their lunch hour. But acted on the feelings generated by looking at those legs and stole the lunch money.
Posted by jesusblogger on March 26, 2009 at 10:56 pm
Tony,
You know what, there have been times when I have regretted ever posting the blog about Douglas Goodman. I would not want The Jesus Blog to become known for just this post, becoming ‘The Douglas Blog’. However, I still believe I did the right thing in creating this post.
I wanted to make a protest against the lack of repentance from someone who was so in the public light and seemed to jump straight back into pastoral ministry.
I’ve tried to moderate the comments that appear on this post so that they are not just attacks on Mr Goodman, or his family.
You are right that we should all consider ourselves, less we fall when we think we are standing. That said, ministry is a privilege and should be trusted to FAITHFUL men. When one is UNFAITHFUL you can loose your position – just look at Moses, for his disobedience God refused him entry into the Promise Land.
Posted by Tony Isaac on March 27, 2009 at 1:35 am
Hi Jesusblogger,
I do get your point completely. It’s just the other posts that were beginning to border on self righteouness that i was really concerned about.
True, at times you wonder what some people are doing behind the pulpit and I have actually come to the realisation that the pulpit pimps are just as bad. They twist scriptures and keep the gullible church folk under bondage.
Very sad indeed.
Anyways God bless you real good.
Posted by Ex-VCC member, never to return there but has good ongoing relationship with God on March 27, 2009 at 1:39 am
Tony,
I would like to address some of your points;
1. Douglas Goodman’s action were also against those of us who went to VCC when he took our hard earned tithes and spent it wastefully on his family, his ‘partners in crime’ and the women he coveted.
2. He could not give up on his lusts and greed;this resulted in his actions being brought to light. Had he not done so, we would not be discussing Douglas Goodman’s actions – period.
3. Over and above this I feel that it is his arrogance before he was charged and incarcerated, and some say since his release into society that has caused the level of discussion of Douglas Goodman to continue.
I agree totally that God is the judge…after all Douglas Goodman did go to jail. I also agree that God forgives…when one asks for forgiveness. However, I, like many people, am fed up of christians maligning the name of christianity in the very public way that Douglas Goodman did by refusing to ’step down. The black church has long tolerated men who can’t keep their hands to themselves, be it over money or women, and there needs to be an end to it.
So forgive me if I do not see Douglas Goodman as a victim in this matter and,as a consequence, I do not feel the need to get up and give the man a round of applause.
Posted by Tony Isaac on March 27, 2009 at 10:35 am
Hey Ex-VCC member,
No one asked you to applaud him and am sorry to say this but you do still seem bitter against him. I can understand the hurt, and the betrayal of trust. Trust me I have been there. I was a victim of pastoral deceit and my hurt and bitterness nearly cost me my salvation. I don’t think it is worth it.
In all honesty, the question you should be asking yourself is; why where you deceived? Why were you taken advantage of? Could it be because you did not search the scriptures for yourself? Or try to know God for yourself? Can it happen again?
There have always been false preachers and there will always be false preachers till Christ comes. It is our responsibility to guard ourselves against them by knowing the word for ourselves. Like I said earlier, I have been there. I was really deceived by pastors most especially by the Word of Faith proponents. “Name it claim it”, “sow your seed in faith”, “tithe to receive your increase”, and my personal favourite; “if you sow to a prophet, you will receive a prophet’s reward”. And after years of practising this hogwash, I became disillusioned when I discovered it was all a scam but whose fault was it? MINE! Why did I not try to know God for myself?
Pastor Goodman might have a problem but we shouldn’t make his problem ours. If he loves women, that’s his problem. If he loves money; that’s definitely his problem. And if he chooses to ignore his problems because of pride and arrogance his stint as a guest of Her Majesty would be the least of his problems.
We do have every right to point out things that are wrong; false teachings, false doctrines, false preachers et all but I don’t think we should do it with indignation.
Posted by My hope is in Christ on May 28, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Good point.
Posted by Elise on March 29, 2009 at 10:14 am
Well said Ex-VCC member. I couldn’t have expressed it better myself.
Posted by Ex-VCC member, never to return there but has good ongoing relationship with God on March 30, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Tony
If you had been attending VCC you would know that many suspected but had no proof of Douglas Goodman’s actions. So no, I had not been deceived by Douglas Goodman. Like hundreds of VCC members, I was hoping and praying and waiting for my suspicions, and the rumours that had been circulating to dissipate; hoping and praying and waiting for the circumstances to be wholly different from what I perceived them to be. I did not get angry and leave the church and spread rumours. No, I waited silently hoping that it would go away and we would be given (credible) reason to think none of it had been true. In short I, like many others, had cut Douglas Goodman some slack, Tony. Unfortunately, all that hoping, praying and waiting had been in vain.
In terms of searching the scriptures for myself, I did so then; I do it now – that has never been an issue. Clearly none of us has written on this site of the countless times when we dismissed what was being said from the pulpit when we suspected that Douglas Goodman or his wife were preaching at specific people from the pulpit. If we were to speak of the amount of times each of us suspected this, we would be here forever…but because we do not do so, does not mean that we had been deceived.
So no, I am not bitter against Douglas Goodman, his wife, his partners in crime or his followers. What I feel and what I seek to get across – with no apology I might add – is my disgust and sorrow at the fact that this man brought the church, the black church, into such disrepute publicly when ALL of this could have been COMPLETELY avoided when he asked to step down or else. HE chose the ‘or else’ route, not any of us. Therefore he was happy to call the bluff of those who were to testify against him EVEN THOUGH he knew that, for the most part, he was lying. He was willing to bring the Church under the spotlight for such embarrassing matters which at the very least would result in the unsaved world viewing the modern black church as being rotten from the core with hypocrisy, deceit, ungodliness, a lack of or no faith whatsoever. HE DID NOT CARE ABOUT THIS. His vanity, his pride, his wrong, his ‘high life’ were all more important than the public perception of the modern Church; all more important than the affect this situation might have on some Christians or some who were starting to enquire about God and the Christian faith. He did not consider ANYONE but himself. THAT is what upsets me, Tony. In fact, he did not even chose to shun from the situation so as to avoid shame being brought on his own family. The level of selfishness in that very act is not demonstrative of Godly behaviour whatsoever.
So, I am not bitter. I am simple fed up of black people (my own race) letting these matters pass until the next VERY same set of circumstances – that’s all – none of which is furthering the teaching of Gospel or the works that those genuine servants are engaging in. I’d say it makes the work of God’s true servants that bit harder in an already ‘anti-Christianity’ world.
If you could not determine these very obvious sentiments from any of my previous posts, that is a great shame which has resulted in you falsely ascribing to me feelings of bitterness and of being deceived – none of which is the case.
Lastly, I will add this for you to ponder on. If anyone dared to disagree with or challenge Douglas Goodman or Erica Goodman, the Goodmans would (wrongfully) spend much time at the pulpit slating the said people, unfairly and wickedly twisting scriptures against those people, apparently through ‘godly’ wisdom and ‘in the name of Jesus’ – all of which was total abuse of their position. You and his believers might just want to stop and consider that Douglas Goodman is simply reaping what he sowed. Just to clarify; that is said not with pleasure but just with the knowledge that it comes to all of us – the Goodmans are no different.
Posted by Tony Isaac on March 31, 2009 at 9:22 am
Hey ex VCC,
I get what you are saying and I am in no way singling Pastor Goodman out for special treatment. These bad behaviours are everywhere, be it in a black or white church. Pastor Reid of Peniel Church somewhere in Essex too was found to be leading an immoral life. The church is largely to blame for behaviours like these. We exalt so called men of God to really obscene heights and these men then forget that they are just men and begin to believe that they are untouchable and above reproach. It is our fault.
I do apologise if I have slighted you in anyway. Am only speaking from my own personal experience, I really became bitter and very bitter indeed when I found out that some pastors I held in high esteem were deceitful. I even became angry against God before I realised that it was my fault, I had ascribed God’s attributes to man. And what do you expect would be the result of such actions, hurts and pain. Men would always disappoint you because they are men. God is the only one who is infallible.
Like I said earlier, these bad behaviours are everywhere and if we continue to keep score of these wrongs, we will grow old and die before our time. There will definitely be no shortage of these kinds of scandals. If Pastor Goodman chooses to be unrepentant then he will definitely get what is coming to him and that would be for God to give.
In the meantime, let us concentrate on building our own faith and encouraging on another in the Lord.
I apologise once again if any of my comments offended you. God bless.
Posted by Ex-VCC member, never to return there but has good ongoing relationship with God on April 1, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Tony
Thanks very much for your comments; I am pleased that I have explained myself in a way that enabled you to understand the points as I intended. I take this opportunity to add that I work in the legal field and accept that my written language can appear quite blunt occasionally (particularly on subjects about which I am passionate) but when I have the time I seek to soften this.
I don’t think any of us are really keeping score with Douglas Goodman. In my life he comes up only when someone chooses to tell me of V2V, which is extremely rare.
I very much agree you that we should concentrate on our own walk with God and encourage one another, as any of us could fall to the wayside if we are not careful…but this particularly blog is called “Disgraced Douglas Goodman out of prison and back into the pulpit. Is this right?”.smile ..which is why we have all posted our views….smile.
On a serious note, our faith and more specifically our individual relationships with God are very precious and not to be taken lightly but so should be the relationships we forge as Christians with one another. People are valuable and should be treated as we would like to be treated. Maybe this is magnified for me as my mother cared for abused children and people as part of her work when I was young, and so my automatic response in life is to defend those who are being abused and address the wrong actions of the abuser. But I acknowledge that we all have our failings.
Anyway, I do not know if you are writing from the US, here or any other country in the world but wherever you are, may God bless you.
Posted by Ex-VCC member, never to return there but has good ongoing relationship with God on April 1, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Tony
Thanks very much for your comments; I am pleased that I have explained myself in a way that enabled you to understand the points as I intended. I take this opportunity to add that I work in the legal field and accept that my written language can appear quite blunt occasionally (particularly on subjects about which I am passionate) but when I have the time I seek to soften this.
I don’t think any of us are really keeping score with Douglas Goodman. In my life he comes up only when someone chooses to tell me of V2V, which is extremely rare.
I very much agree you that we should concentrate on our own walk with God and encourage one another, as any of us could fall to the wayside if we are not careful…but this particularly blog is called “Disgraced Douglas Goodman out of prison and back into the pulpit. Is this right?”.smile ..which is why we have all posted our views….smile.
On a serious note, our faith and more specifically our individual relationships with God are very precious and not to be taken lightly but so should be the relationships we forge as Christians with one another. People are valuable and should be treated as we would like to be treated. Maybe this is magnified for me as my mother cared for abused children and people as part of her work when I was young, and so my automatic response in life is to defend those who are being abused and address the wrong actions of the abuser. But I acknowledge that we all have our failings.
Anyway, I do not know if you are writing from the US, in the UK where I am or any other country in the world but wherever you are, may God bless you.
Posted by Very Ex VCC Kelli on October 25, 2009 at 10:39 am
Praise Jesus, comment received and moderated. JB.
Posted by Tony Isaac on April 2, 2009 at 11:33 pm
Hey Ex-VCC,
Many thanks for your kind words.
May the good Lord bless you and your family as well.
Posted by ex-v2v member on April 11, 2009 at 11:01 pm
hi everyone, i have read the comments and i must say that i for one was very much fooled into believing the douglas goodman was innocent, but i was in that church for the word of God, until i got to know the family, who were ever so nice,but i started finding out a lot of things (which i’ll be here all day if i list them all) that got me questioning if he had changed or learned from his stint in jail, but the things i found out recently were so shocking and when he was preaching i was mortified because he would preach the word of God but in his heart and what came out of his mouth away from the pulpit and the congregation was the total opposite: it’s all about money, power and showing everyone ‘who put him in jail’ that he’s back in action! the worst for me was when …
[COMMENTS EDITED - JB]
…..i know for a fact he hasn’t changed and God in heaven sees and he will judge, there is so much more but i know in due time all will be revealed….v2v is masquerading as the body of christ, but in actual fact they are an island on their own where getting money from the congregation in this recession is their main goal!
Posted by My hope is in Christ. on May 28, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Stumbling upon this site is such a painful reminder. Being an ex member of v2v, I know that a blog site like this will embolden the Goodmans and their following in their already very strong narcissistic view of themselves. Strong reactions like this will be swept under the carpet with simple minded rhetorics that allude to their faith being tested like Job, the devil trying to stop or steal their destiny like Joseph or intense jealousy like that of Saul towards David.
I think we all should be sober and honest with ourselves and ask “Do you think that the Goodmans care?”
Seriously? Honestly?……Do you suppose that after all that has been said and done, they are going to acknowledge the hurt and devastation that they have afflicted on many individuals and on the reputation of the church and repent?
We can do what is right and pray for them that God would grant them repentance and I would encourage anyone to do so if they are lead of God, but alas as I have been privy to learn whilst being a member of their church, they have destiny guys and I doubt any of our opinons as valid as they come will deter them. Even God’s very own Word does not deter them from doing and saying some of the most unsavory and Godless things without remorse or shame.
Mr Goodman is a spiritual deviant, a pied piper if you like. But he is not the only one guys. THERE ARE MANY LIKE HIM. We are in the great Apostate (great falling away from the faith) (2 Thess ch:2). Please understand that God sets men like this aside and allows them to do what they do, so that His Word can be fulfilled (2 Tim ch:3).
My prayer for all believers is that we pursue Christ in Sincerity to search out his word and truth. I pray that the love that Christ displayed on the cross will provoke us to live lives that are worthy of the cross. That we may serve God according to His Word, and not tradition.
My prayer for myself and everyone who are still obviously hurt by the Goodsmans and their behaviuor is that God will teach us to forgive. Love never fails, God’s WILL have His way.
P.S,
Just in case the Goodmans do see any of these comments, consider just for a moment if you can (now please try) that these posts are not attacks, but the truth and to any of their folllowers or enablers, love is not being a “yes man”.
Posted by ex-v2v member on May 31, 2009 at 4:29 pm
To,My hope is in Christ
very well said and i totally agree with you.
Posted by grahame on June 22, 2009 at 7:17 am
I think we should always keep in mind that for everyone who fall who we hear so much about that there are literally hundreds of thousands of people in ministry WHO WE DON’T HEAR ABOUT who are serving God and doing the right thing! Let’s keep them in our prayers..
Posted by Shirley on July 3, 2009 at 5:19 pm
There are some very deluded ‘Christians’ on this blog. People like you who preach ‘forgiveness’ are the very same ones that will allow child molesters to work with children, rapists to visit their victims etc and call it ‘rehabilitation’. You give a whole new meaning to ‘turning the other cheek’ . Yes God is our judge and executioner but this man really does need to humble himself before God first and beg forgiveness from his congreation. Sadly too many people seek a ‘God’ that comes with flashing lights, bling and music. Entertainment is the name of ‘their’ game. I’ve heard of churches whereby you’re TOLD how much thithes you should give. Thank God I attend a church where giving 1p gets you the same blessing as £100.
God bless
Posted by TEE ODES on July 16, 2009 at 7:13 pm
I am very happy to see Pastor Goodman preaching again and I don’t believe the sexual offense charged against him as a lot of the women in the church was evil and always wanted to lay down with him. I was an ex-member of V2V and currently live in the United States, I love his preaching and I always told my friends that he would end up in serious trouble because of the compliments he gave to some women, alot of them were reading it wrongly and some use the opportunity to get close to him. More so, my friend was also worried about the leaders he had around him which they had a very bad intent to take over his church. The problem with Pastor Goodman was that, he trusted everyone the same which ended up to be his weakness, only God knows what really went down with him and those women, but one thing I KNOW, THEY WERE NOT FORCED, they wanted a piece of him. Remember, we are all HUMAN, so it does not matter whether you are a Pastor, Judge or the Government, we women have the utmost power to resist and not MEN. So please, let’s all forgive as God have already forgiven HIM. Whenever I come to London, I will be attending the church, don’t care what any one says. I love Pastor Goodman, keep up your work, don’t let anyone bring you down, the Lord is your strength. God Bless you and your family.
Posted by Liz on August 18, 2009 at 4:02 pm
I am not sure why anyone would think Goodman is a good person and would love or cant wait to attend his Church, Yikes, You Need HELP!
Goodman is a wicked person, simple. And lets stop saying its not up to us to Judge, we have a brain, lets use it, what he did was wrong. Cant you see that??
Some people that are not Christians, wont do what “that ” man did, NOT, in a million years.
Jeez!
Signed.
An Ex, BUT Very Very Ex VCC Member.
Posted by Very Ex VCC Kelli on October 25, 2009 at 11:15 am
I fel you sis!
Very Ex VCC Kelli!!
Posted by Very Ex VCC Kelli on October 25, 2009 at 11:17 am
Sorry, I meant I FEEL you sis!!
God Bless!
Trust the Spirit and Seek truth ALWAYS!!!
Posted by TEE ODES on August 28, 2009 at 10:38 pm
What I would say is that you still acre about him, if not, why are you still logging to see him. Come on, get over it and move on. No one is perfect.
Posted by T Baro on September 2, 2009 at 4:19 am
We so-called CHRISTIAN should be careful the way we judge OTHERS. How long did it take Peter to go back to preach the gospel after denying Christ Jesus? Was there any back bench? I am not against instuting “back bench”. Leave judgment to the only One who will eventual judge all. “So do not make any hasty or premature judgements before the time when the Lord comes [again], for He will both bring to light the secret things that are [now hidden] in darkness and disclose and expose the [secret] aims (motives and purposes) of hearts. Then every man will receive his [due] commendation from God.” 1 Cor. 4:5
He is back to the pulpit to preach the gospel, the word of God. Let him go on. Stop judging others. If souls are coming into the kingdom of God by means of his preaching, that is fine. If I may ask a question, ‘When Peter fell, what did Christ do?’ He said, ‘I have prayed for you, when you are restored, strengthen your brothers.’ How many pray for falling brothers and sisters? How many went down on there knees and wept before the Lord for falling Christians? How many see failing christians through the eyes of Jesus? What would Jesus do when a member of his body is broken and shattered? Jesus loves and rescues the perishing; He cares for the dieing and the ones that have fallen away?
Paul says, ‘SO THEN, let us be looked upon as ministering servants of Christ and stewards (trustees) of the mysteries (the secret purposes) of God. Morever, it is required of stewards that a man should be found faithful [proving himself worthy of trust]. But [as for me personally] it matters very little to me that I should be put on trial by you [on this point], and that you or any other human tribunal should investigate and question and cross-question me. I do not even put myself on trial and judge myself. I AM NOT CONSCIOUS OF ANYTHING AGAINST MYSELF, AND I FEEL BLAMELESS; BUT I AM NOT VINDICATED AND ACQUITTED BEFORE GOD ON THAT ACCOUNT. IT IS THE LORD [HIMSELF] WHO EXAMINES AND JUDGES ME.’ 1 Cor. 4:1-4.
How are the mighty fallen! The same who said that wept bitterly on his knees. Today, we say with glory in our hearts. We have brains do not mean we have licence to JUDGE others, slice them like a piece on bread on our table. Christians, let us wake up! God is not a respecter of anyone. The worst and dangerous thing is to speak evil of God servants, whoever they are. Saul did wrong, went out of God’s will and purpose but David was careful to maintain a positive attitude on his matter. Let pray more for our fallen generals in the Kingdom of God all over the world. Yes, they have gone off the mark, even our eyes judgemental marks however PRAYING FOR THEM, THEIR FAMILIES, FOR THEIR RESTORATION IS FAR BETTER THAN HELPING THE ENEMY DO HIS NEGATIVES THAT MAY EVENTUAL RUIN THE SPREADERS!
Posted by My hope is in Christ. on September 29, 2009 at 9:15 pm
To Baro,
The scriptures you give are very true and relevant, all scripture is…….In their correct context. Does Mr Goodman meet these qualifications to the best of your knowlege;
“This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a Bishop, he desires a good work. A Bishop then Must be BLAMELESS, THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, TEMEPERATE, SOBER-MINDED, OF
GOOD BEHAVIOUR, HOSPITABLE, ABLE TO TEACH; NOT GIVEN TO MUCH WINE, NOT VIOLENT,
NOT GREEDY FOR MONEY, BUT GENTLE, NOT QUARRELSOME, NOT COVETEOUS; ONE WHO
RULES HIS OWN HOUSE WEL, HAVING HIS CHILDREN IN SUBMISSION WITH ALL REVERENCE
(FOR IF A MAN DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO RUN HIS OWN HOUSE, HOW WILL HE TAKE CARE OF
THE CHURCH OF GOD?) NOT A NOVICE, LEST BEING PUFFED UP IN PRIDE HE FALL INTO THE
SAME CONDEMNATION AS THE DEVIL…..MOREOVER HE MUST HAVE A GOOD TESTIMONY
AMONG THOSE WHO ARE OUTSIDE, LEST HE FALL INTO REPROACH AND THE SNARE OF THE DEVIL.” 1TIM 3: 1-7.
From my experience having Mr Goodman as my pastor for some years in V2V, I have found that based on this measure that the Word of God provides that he fails to maintain or uphold A LOT of these stipulations put on men that desire to lead, shephard, pastor, over-see or bishop Christians.
I am surprised that a Christian would brush off any objections to mr goodman continuing to preach as being judgemental, as if that is the case then what purpose does this scripture above serve. I know it isn’t for decoration and I know that it speaks to new-covenent believers, so why is it always ignored?
Note that a pastor is asked to meet ALL the qualifications that may pertain to him, 2 out of 16 won’t do. It is a tall order any one of us might say, but it’s a tall order for a reason….Because the precious blood of the Lamb was shed for every believer. A high price was payed, so therfore a high price is required. The grace of God can allow a man to meet these standards..it’s not impossible.
If a man happens to fall into sin that is exposed to all, he then no longer holds a good “testimony” or reputation to those outside. Does that mean he shouldn’t preach again? Of course not..he should preach to his next door neighbours, the man who runs the corner shop, the guy in sainsburys, everywhere except the pulpit. The determination to stay behind the pulpit exposes the heart and his motives in a disturbing way. Many believers are effective without a pulpit, or is God unable to save without goodman behind the pulpit?
If the heart of the pastor is sincere he would step down like many politicians and leaders who are held in high regard do when their indiscretions are exposed. If the heart of the pastor is sincere he wouldn’t consider a reproach brought to the body an option for the sake of keeping a sense of relevance for himself.
The standard is different for me an ordinary joe blogs and a pastor who people attach (misplace) significance to. James 3:1.
The scriptures you use are Paul’s expressions of being judged and persecuted for preaching the Gospel. How do you compare what a blameless man who was suffering for righteousness sake to mr goodman, begs belief. 1 peter 3:15-17. Paul met the qualifications that could apply to him amongst believers, does mr goodman?
“There is a way that seems right to man, but its end is the way of death”. Prov 14:12. Please tell me if I am wicked or judgemental to want mr goodman to sit down and work out his salvation with fear and trembling. To not want him to brazenly walk in contradiction or oppostion to the word of God and have the wrath of God abide on his head because of his disobedience to the Word of God.
Supporting mr goodman is good, we all need support, but God forbid I or anyone else support this man to ignore the Word of God. That blood will not be on my hands.
May God have mercy on us all.
Posted by Very Ex VCC Kelli on October 25, 2009 at 11:12 am
Your use of the scripture highlighting the requirements for the office of Bishop is on point. I used to refer to this a lot when I was deliberating whether to leave VCC and even well before all the scandal broke. I just used to wonder, if this scripture is so clear about what our expectations of a leader in church should be, why was there any debate about is suitaility to remain in office? It just seemed to expose the level of peoples adherence to the word or willingness to turn a blind eye to it in favour of the scripture that suited their level of comfort with the situation back then such as ‘ touch not my annointed’ and the mantra that rebellious behaviour and disobedience will not be ‘blessed’.
Posted by ex-v2v member on October 19, 2009 at 7:58 pm
to ‘my hope is in Christ’, well said! i totally agree with you, as today too many people are so quick to use the Word of God to excuse or cover-up many many pastors’ misdemeanors, when infact we should be doing what the Word of God tells us, as you so rightly put it.
God bless you and may you continue to grow in wisdom.
i definately know that douglas goodman should not be preaching because what he says on the pulpit, does not line up with what he says away from the pulpit and what’s truly in his heart, I AM WITNESS TO THIS FIRST HAND, BUT GOD WILL EXPOSE AGAIN, AS MY PLACE IS TO ONLY PRAY!