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February 20, 2008 / Nick

Does being Oneness Pentecostal make me a member of a cult?


I read a post labelling me a member of a cult because I am an Apostolic Pentecostal, or as some like to say, ‘Oneness Pentecostal’. It’s a strange feeling to be called a member of a cult, what I would expect is that as a member of a cult I live on a special compound, am devoted to an authoritarian leader (who claims to be God), that I’ve cut off ties with my all my family and follow a set of non-biblical writings of some form (think, ‘Book of Mormon‘ etc). However, none of this is true.Then why are Oneness Pentecostals labelled as members of a strange cult? According to the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry we are a cult. They accuse Oneness Pentecostal Christians of the following…

They deny the Trinity, require baptism for salvation, are legalistic, and do not preach the true gospel.

As a Oneness Pentecostal

  1. Yes, I don’t believe in the Trinity. However, I do believe in God. I do believe in the Father, Son & Holy Ghost. However, I don’t use the term Trinity to describe God as it is not a biblical phrase neither did the Apostles use a creed such as the Nicean to define God. Their faith in God was based upon Judaism. The God of Judaism is One, His Holy Spirit is not a person but God Himself in action. And as a Christian I believe that Jesus Christ is God incarnate (Jhn 1:1, Isa 9:6). He is not a second or third person He is the very fullness and totality of God (1 Tim 3:16, Col 2:9). The result of my faith is the exaltation of Jesus Christ and worship of God… is this cultic?
  2. I do believe in baptism as a part of salvation. The bible teaches that all who believe should be baptised (Mark 16:16), Jesus Himself taught baptism as part of the ‘new birth’ (Jhn 3:5). The Apostles baptised on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:28), Paul teaches that we are ‘buried with Him’ in baptism (Rom 6:1-3). Likewise, I also believe that salvation is a result of God’s grace toward us (Eph 2:8), that salvation is freely given by God and is received through faith (Eph 2:8). Peter himself said ‘baptism doth save us’ (1 Pet. 3:21) – is he also a member of a cult?
  3. The accusation of legalism is also not relevant to most within Oneness Pentecostalism, we are as dependant upon God’s grace as any other man who calls upon Jesus’ Name. It is no suprprise then that one of the most popular songs sung are ‘amazing grace’, ‘your grace and mercy brought me through’, ‘I know it was the blood’… I have never heard anyone sing: ‘I know it was my praying 3 times a day’.
  4. “They do not preach the true gospel”. All that I and those within the Apostolic faith preach is the Bible, ‘sola scripture’, we do not preach Creeds, Traditions or other extra-biblical dogma. Therefore, I find it offensive to be labelled as not preaching the true gospel. I believe in His death, burial and resurrection. I believe He died to save me from sin and is coming back to earth again… I believe in salvation through His Name (Acts 4:12).
Does holding to the primitive faith of Christianity as found in the New Testament above the teachings of the Church Fathers and later councils make me a cult follower? Couldn’t the same be said of the Anglican Communion who started to allow Henry to divorce and re-marry? Isn’t that more of a cult?
I shall now take a deep breath…
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64 Comments

  1. lbolm / Feb 20 2008 9:15 pm

    Brother,
    When you are dealing with the Apologetics people, they are the ones who want to get legalistic. Talk about “replacement theology”? Most of them have replaced God The Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit with their own 4th Godhead in the form of The Scripture. They will use scripture against you and not even look at how they completly ignore some of their own mistakes.
    I guess that I am considered in a cult too, by their standards.
    I just want to make my Father happy and do what He has called me to do.
    Keep up the work and come by my sight if you wish.
    lbolm.wordpress.com

  2. arm5 / Feb 20 2008 11:48 pm

    It really bothers me when these apologetics people when they call us a cult. It really amazes me how many of them attacks usapostolics.

    Check my blog out at arm5.wordpress.com

    • Scott Perkins / Jun 19 2009 3:29 am

      Oneness rejects Jesus Christ.

      you believe Jesus is the Father who just calls himself his only begotten son, you are in a cult.

      God is Triune.

      • Jamie Watkins / Nov 7 2009 11:45 pm

        YOU COULDN’T BE SO WRONG!WE BELIEVE IN THE FATHER SON,AND HOLY GHOST BUT WE TEACH THE ORIGINAL TEACHING THAT THE APOSTLES TAUGHT.SEE YOU GUYS AS TRINITARIANS ALWAYS ACCUSE US AS BEING A CULT WHEN YOU DON’T EVEN REALIZE THAT YOUR DOCTRINE CAME FROM THE COUNCIL OF NICEA IN 325 A.D. AND THE COUNCIL OF CONSTANTINOPLE IN 381 A.D. 200 YEARS AFTER ALL THE ORIGINAL APOSTLES HAD DIED.YOUR DOCTRINE TEACHES ONE GOD IN THREE SEPARATE AND DISTINCT PERSONS,WE TEACH ONE GOD IN THREE MANIFESTATIONS THE FATHER(INVISIBLE ETERNAL SPIRIT),THE SON(ETERNAL SPIRIT MADE VISIBLE),AND HOLY GHOST(THE ETERNAL SPIRIT IN ACTIVITY BAPTIZING,SEALING US INTO THE BODY OF CHRIST).AS FOR THE FATHER BEING HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON WE DON’T TEACH THAT.WE DON’T BELIEVE THAT THE FATHER IS THE SON BUT THAT THE FATHER WAS IN THE SON,THE SON WAS THE BODY THE TABERNACLE OF THE ONE AND ONLY HOLY SPIRIT WHICH IS OUR FATHER.WHEN JESUS CHRIST PRAYED HE WAS NOT PRAYING TO HIMSELF IT WAS THE HUMAN NATURE PRAYING TO THE ONE OMNIPRESENT SPIRIT OF GOD THE FATHER.JESUS IS NOT A SECOND MEMBER OF GOD BUT ALL OF GOD IN A HUMAN BODY.YOU WILL NOT FIND GOD THE SON IN THE BIBLE BUT THE SON OF GOD.THE OFFICE OF GOD IN FLESH REDEEMING USE BACK TO HIM.YOU WILL NOT FIND IN THE BIBLE GOD THE HOLY GHOST BUT YOU WILL FIND THE HOLY GHOST IN THERE.WHY?BECAUSE IT IS GOD THE FATHER IN HIS OFFICE AS THE BAPTIZER,INDWELLER AND HEALER.SO JUST REMEMBER YOU CANNOT SEPARATE GOD,CHRIST,AND THE HOLY GHOST THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME…NOT THREE PEOPLE IN UNION…SO WATCH WHO YOU CALL A CULT NEXT TIME.MAY GOD GIVE YOU REVELATION AND UNDERSTANDING IN JESUS MIGHTY NAME AMEN……IN LOVE NOT HATE…
        P.S.JESUS IS GOD..PRAISE HIM

  3. Donald Rogan / Apr 26 2008 3:51 am

    Everything depends on how the term “cult” is defined. Most commentators called the worshippers at the Temple (Beit Miqdash) the Temple cult. I don’t believe anyone in the Church has it all figured out. The only thing that I can genuinely acknowledge about the Apostolic or Oneness Pentecostals is that they believe that they have “the” Truth or better said “all of the Truth”. On a larger scale, so does the rest of the Christian denominations. I think denominations are wrong when they teach “Replacement Theology”, which I won’t defend here since there are several books written on subject. The one thing about Oneness groups is that they believe that Judaism in the time of Jesus and the apostles was “monolithic”. Another thing is that they believe that strict monotheism comes from Deut. 6:4, which is doesn’t, the strict monotheism that they are looking for is in the latter chapters of Isaiah around chapters 44-50. Deut 6:4 deals with Israel’s exclusive relationship to the One God, and that since He is their God, then they are to love Him wholeheartedly. Hence, the “hear” or ‘shema’ which is listening obedience, YHWH is God, and He is ‘echad’. Now the word ‘echad’ in Hebrew doesn’t describe for us a strict absolute singularity, but rather a plurality of unity. ‘Echad’ is first used in the Genesis account of covenant marriage. “For this cause shall a man leave his mother and father, and the twain shall become ‘echad nefesh’.” The “one” flesh is composed of male and female. Ezekiel’s two sticks (Ezekiel 37?) is composed of two sticks that become ‘echad’ in the hand of the Lord. So in some real sense, Jesus is ‘one’ with the Father (John 10:30), but as a Oneness believer, you can’t leave room for plurality in the Godhead. For them, it must be singularity, however this misconstrues the reality of the incarnation of the Word (Logos (Gr.), Devar (Heb.), Memra (Aramaic) or just simply the ‘Torah’- the eternal Word of God). It was the Word that was with God in the beginning and was God, and it was through Him that all things were made (which Colossians and Hebrews talks about as well – that the pre-existant Word (Jesus) is the Creator). But it speaks of Him as “with” God. It also nevers says that the Father became flesh, or the Holy Spirit became flesh, but that the Word became flesh. Oneness doctrine teaches the incarnation of the Father, rather than that of the Word. The other thing that seems odd to me about Oneness teaching is that they’ve changed Exodus 3:15 to say “Jesus” instead of YHWH (probably pronounced “Yahweh”) for by saying Jesus is the name of the Father, they in essence don’t believe God when He says YHWH is His name for ever. Jesus came in His Father’s name, but not with the same name as His Father. Jesus in Hebrew is Yeshua which means “salvation” or as Strong’s Concordance puts it: “he shall save”, which is exactly what the angel says his name is…”for he shall save his people from their sins.” The main problem with a lot of Christian teaching is that we have “boasted against the branches” and said that we’re the root, and that now salvation is of the Christians, when Jesus Himself said that salvation is of the Jews. While I’m not advocating a return to Judaism, I am saying that without a Jewish roots theology, you can misconstrue a lot of the apostolic teachings and create a different Jesus and a different gospel. Much like the Torah-less Jesus that’s preached today.

  4. jesusblogger / Apr 28 2008 8:53 pm

    The God of the Torah is certainly not viewed outside of a strict monotheistic view. Both the Talmud and commentators such as Rabbi Hertz never understand ‘echad’ used for YHWH as being any other than that He is One and possesses such great and multiple attributes that plural language be used to describe the Holy One.

    Apostolic folk you have met who substitute OT YHWH for ‘Jesus’ are misguided, but to be honest I dare say some Trinitarian Christians do this too.

    The error of the Trinity is that 3rd Century Fathers try to revise the revelation of the Holy One given to the Holy Nation via. Patriarchs and Prophets.

  5. judah / Apr 29 2008 10:48 pm

    to Donald Rogan: i wish Jesus would have explained the Shema in Mark 12:32 so well to us as you did in your message. Yet Jesus only chose to further confuse us by again describing God as one and one alone when reffering to this vs Deut6:4.

    i know being sarcastic is never a good way to communicate but it is useful in pointing out obvious truths.

    • Scott Perkins / Jun 19 2009 3:32 am

      God is Triune.

      • jesusblogger / Jun 19 2009 7:18 pm

        Scripture please?

        Deuteronomy 6v4 “Hear oh Israel, the LORD our God is One”

        1 Tim 3:16 “Great is the mystery of godliness… God was manifest in the flesh”

        2 Cor. 5:9 “God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself”

        Jas 2:19 “Thou believest there is one God; thou doest well, the devils also believe and tremble”

  6. Gabriel Mendez / May 12 2008 1:00 am

    There is a lot of teaching on the above
    5 coments on the topic “Does being Oneness Pentecostal make me a member of a cult?
    The Oneness Pentecostals are often single out as a cult because their STANDARS. But give me one religious organisation that do es not have any standars (rules).
    To the Bible Answering Man, some time ago when he was given some warning to a caller againts the U.P.C. people, saying against them that they were a cult and not preaching the true gospel, I contacted him at once and refreshed his memory quoting from his own set of rules (standars)of the organisation he represented; how it (the organisation) forbids him to use his own opinions.
    I told him that he was no free to speak out his own convictions. (he never answer to contradict my assertion and to prove me wrong.)

    To James R. White a friend of Bible Answer Man on “The Possibly related posts” The error of the Oneness Theology. We had a exchange of notes some time ago; him quoting the words of Jesus …that all honor the Son as they honor the Father. I asked him “Why the Scripture do es not say that we should honor the “another Comforter” as the Son and the Father are honored?” and I added, “since the Father loved the Son and the Son loved the Father why neither of them both, loved the “another Comforter”; and why not honor or love is render to this “another Conforter”. He stop the
    exchange of notes. And in the account of his reading material “I love The Holy Trinity”, I asked to him “…to whom you love the more the Father that gave His Son, or the Son who died for you”? never answer .

    As far as preaching the true gospel is concerned; in Acts of the Apostles says that resurrected Jesus …through the Holy Ghost gave commandments to His Apostles before ascending to heaven. This is the LACK on Christendom today,
    to speak under the direction of the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of truth promised by Jesus, The another Comforter, given to guide unto all truth, not unto HALF TRUTH as we are in the days prophesied as some people “…deceiving and being deceived”.
    So, to avoid to deceive people or being deceive, I cling myself to the Apostles Doctrine! Gabriel Mendez.

    • william / Nov 25 2010 1:13 am

      I did read your post, it is apparent that you have no understanding of basic greek. This has been a long standing problem of the Jesus only groups. You also have no understanding of the trinity. You play a very dangerous game with salvation , you take something God gives with grace and love and make a step process. The person becomes the savior, they must be good enough. Also ,you can lose your salvation at any point, daily. If you sin ,do not ask God to forgive you , you go to Hell?

      I like the love , grace approach.

  7. Donald Rogan / May 30 2008 5:37 am

    To Judah: I affirm His oneness, oneness of being, but plurality of persons (which a hesitation on the use of the word ‘person(s)’ because of all the connotations of the word.

    To all unitarians, how to you read John 1:1; 1 Timothy 3:16; Colossians 2:9; Phillippians 2:7-11; John 10:30; Matthew 28:19; or even Revelation 5:1-?(9 maybe?) How do you read Hebrews 1; Isaiah 9:6, etc. where there is pluraity of ‘persons’ but the Father and Word/Son as being called “God”?

  8. Samuel / Jun 3 2008 2:53 am

    This message is to help stregthen those of other doctrines, and to preach the “Good” news about Jesus Christ. Now, being a former “Oneness Pentecostal”, I one day was Changed by the Lord God Almighty my Loving Heavenly Father. He is the Great And all powerful the all knowing. And he sent his only Son “Jesus” to die for me. Jesus prayed to his Father in the Garden of Gathsemanie, he said Father not my will but your will be done. He communicated with his Father. Jesus said that all shall “honor the Father even as they Honor the Son”. Jesus said he looks Just like his Father. In Hebrewss he says he is the “Exact image of the invisible God” the First born of all creation. When Jesus was on the cross, he said “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me.” God his Father seperated himself from Jesus because Jesus took on the sins of the world. God does not sin because he is holy. Jesus said “Father Glorify me together with yourself”. He loved God, and he told people about his Father because he loved us. Why should we debate over the word of God? Because the Father of all lies wants us to believe them…. Satan wants us to be a people in the new testament….they have left the commandments of God and followed the “Traditions of Man”. Do we want to serve God or Follow Man? Jesus said that you are to believe in God, believe also in me. He knew his Father, and God the Father says I am Father and I will always be Father”. Ephesians 3:14-15
    If you recieve the Gift of my Son Jesus, you recieve me. 1 John 2:23.
    Think about this, recieve Jesus as Your Personal Lord and savior. Romans 10:9-10, If you confess with your Mouth….Confession is made unto salvation… Jesus loves you and so does God, will you let God give you that gift of his beloved son. Nothing saves you but the blood of Jesus. Confess, belive, be Saved, and be Sanctified. For this is the will of God, your Sanctification. There is nothing more to it. There are not extra works to your Salvation. For we are not saved by “works”, but only by Grace. So love Jesus today and see what happens in your life today? Should we argue about the unity of the Godhead or in “Jesus only”, No. Lets take God. The bible says LET GOD, BE TRUE, and let EVERY MAN be a lier. Thats all. Have a nice day. Remember God loves you and he asks will you be my child!!!

  9. John / Jul 20 2008 4:48 pm

    I just popped in Wikipedia, Utube trinitarian debate with UPC and here to try to understand Oneness a bit more. It seems Oneness has to patch gaps in a number of interpretations such as Matthew 28:19-20 by assuming that the same and sole God appeared at different times under different personalities. Under this scheme, Jesus was fully man (while immaculately conceived) and had communication by prayers with God the Father, deity in heaven. This awkward arrangement becomes unwieldy to try and explain what happens when Jesus returned to heaven to be united in glory with the Father.

  10. helpful / Aug 1 2008 8:59 am

    To Brother John, I agree that Oneness has to patch gaps in a number of interpretations, but so does Trinitarianism.You stated that Jesus “had communication by prayers with God the Father, deity in heaven.” Jesus said in John 14:10 “the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.” II Cor. 5:19 “God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself.” Col. 2:9 “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” Concerning “heaven”, John 3:13, “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven,even the Son of man which is in heaven.” While he was talking to Nicodemas Jesus said He was standing in heaven. We all may have gaps in our interpretations but let’s make sure that we don’t have a gap in our relationship with God. (John 3:3-7).

  11. Scott Perkins / Aug 6 2008 3:28 am

    Listen, you are either decieved, or a wolf in sheeps clothing, but keep in mind those who lead into captivity shall surely go into captivity.

    You oneness believers scream with passion Acts 2.38, Acts 2.38.

    lets go to Acts 2:33 (King James Version)

    Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    Jesus received from who? His Father, what did he receive?

    the promise of the Holy Spirit.

    I heard you try to do backflips over Gen 1.26 trying to convince people God did not mean that, but thats what He said was it not?

    First off you say Jesus the Son did not exist before His birth, that it was the Father in his Diety who became the Son in his humanity, and then became the Holy Spirit in the ressurection.

    so at no point did Jesus and His Father ever coexist together, but Jesus Christ in whom you reject, preaches another gospel.

    John 17:5 (King James Version) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
    Jesus clearly is asking His Father to Glorify Him with the Glory he had WITH His Father before the world was.

    Jesus Christs words is your biggest problem.

    If Jesus is the Father, did he lie here?

    John 14:23 (King James Version) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    John 15:24 (King James Version) If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

    John 5:30-32 (King James Version) I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
    If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

    There is Another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

    The word Another here is the Greek word Allos, which litterally means someone differant, it is the same word use when Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit, who He says shall testify of Jesus.

    John 8:14-18 (King James Version) Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

    And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

    It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

    I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

    Now we know Jesus took the book out of His Fathers hand in the book of Revelation, also Jesus Christ prayed and spoke about to His Father over 200 times in the bible.

    It’s funny to me that people can believe this satanic oneness lie.

    Matthew 3:16 (King James Version)
    And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

    Matthew 3:17 (King James Version) And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    So you are saying, the Diety of God was pleased with the humanity of God, the scary part is people actually buy into this doctrine of devils.

    this verse is All three working together at one time. Jesus being Baptised, the Father speaking from heaven, and the Holy Spirit descending upon Him, Now Jesus seen the Holy Spirit come upon Him, and heard the Father in Heaven, it would be entertaining to see you crawl out of that verse.

    Hebrews 1:1-6 (King James Version) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    1 John 4:14-16 (King James Version) And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

    Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

    And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

    I know you reject that God sent His son, but I decare it from rooftops.

    1 John 2:22-24 (King James Version) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

    Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

    Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

    John 14:26 (King James Version) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    John 15:26 (King James Version) But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

    John 16:13-16 (King James Version) Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

    Now here Jesus says again that (Another) word, He also said the Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father Shall tesify of Him, He says that the Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself, but of Jesus.

    Now lets get to the truth about all the verses that speak of Gods Triunity.

    Gen 1.26 Then God said let US make man in OUR image after OUR likeness.

    Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    Gen 11.6-7 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let US go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.

    Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

    Whos talking?, Jehovah is, but He says the Lord God Jehovah AND His SPIRIT HAS SENT Him.
    How did Jehovah send Jehovah? the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is Jehovah God.

    Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    I got Baptised the way my Lord and Savior did, but the truth is you preach Jesus this Jesus that, only in the name of Jesus.

    but the fact is you reject Jesus Christ, Satan pulled a good one on you.

    John 3:16 (King James Version) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    You flat out reject that don’t you?

    and Look I know Jesus said if you seen me you have seen the Father, Jesus is the express Image of His Father.

    I know Jesus said him and his Father are one, they are One, but right down the chapter He says Father make them One as we are One.

    due 6.4 the word one there means Echad, which is One in unity, not absolute number.

    the same word used in Gen for a man shall leave his Father and Mother and cleave to his wife, and they shall become One flesh.

    Heres one I find interesting in the second to last chapter in the book of Revelation.
    Revelation 21:22 (King James Version) And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

    Now it clearly says the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb or in the temple of it, wheres the Holy Spirit?

    where He always is in John, or whosoever is writting God word at the time.

    Dude, you do not believe in Jesus Christ.

    the Jehovah wittnesses think Jesus is the archangel Micheal, you believe He is the Father.

    the both of you reject the Son of God.

    God telling Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, was a glimpse intio the future when God the Father would send His Son, to die on a Cross for us, and through His precious Blood we are saved.

    Oneness is of the devil, to me it’s more perverted than most doctrines of devils.

    now here me out Jesus is 110% God Almighty, but He is not the Father.

    I will pray you accept the True God, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

    And Jesus said if you do not believe that I Am He, you shall die in your sins, you reject who Jesus says he was.

    you might as well be a Jew, because they believe in the Father, but they rejct His Son, so do you.

    now here me out Jesus is 110% God Almighty, but He is not the Father.

  12. Scott Perkins / Aug 19 2008 11:49 pm

    Ok, the first cult on the agender, the oneness believers, I will prove that the Jesus only (oneness theory) is a lie from satan himself.

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. …
    14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. …
    18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (KJV)

    It seems obvious even to the casual reader that John means to refer to the creation account of Genesis one. He begins with precisely the same words in Gen. 1:1. “In the beginning.” John immediately presents us with a paradox, that the Word (Logos) was both “with God” in the beginning, but also “was God.” Notice that John refers to the Word with personal pronouns, (He, Him). There is no question then that the Word is a distinct person, and not just a quality or characteristic of God. The use of the masculine personal pronoun (autou – houtos:G3778, “same,” John 1:2) in Greek absolutely requires that the Word is a distinct being, and CANNOT refer to a thing, quality, or manifestation of God. It MUST refer to a distinct person. Everything (including mankind) was made by the Word, according to John. The only logical way to understand this apparent paradox is the compound-plural God. John is giving us more revelation about one of the beings of this plural God mentioned in Genesis one. The Word is ONE of the “US” who made man in “OUR” image.
    This in green only is written by tim Warner, just did not want to take credit for his work, And I do not repersent him, Mr Warner does not know who I am, I just used a piece of his Godly work.

    Deuteronomy 6:4 (King James Version) 4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
    Now here God is said to be One, but interesting the Holy Spirit chose the word ( Echad ) for the Greek translation of the word One, which is one in unity, not absolute number.

    The Holy Spirit could have used the Word (Yachid) The main Hebrew word for solitary oneness.

    Echad is the same word used in Gen 2.24.
    Genesis 2:24 (King James Version) 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
    God could have ended all doubt, by using the word Yachid, but instead He choose Echad, which presents many problems with those who reject Gods word on His Triunity.

    in the very beginning of the Word of God, the name itself used for God there is Elohim which is plural in nature.

    Oneness believers say there is no real Son of God, using the term Son really means God the Father coming to the earth and then calling himself His Son, weird I know, they use a couple of verses of the bible and throw all the rest away.

    John 14:8-9 (King James Version) 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

    So there the oneness believers say, look, Jesus is saying He is the Father, but is he really?
    see the truth is Jesus is the express Image of His Father.

    Hebrews 1:3 (King James Version) 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

    2 Corinthians 4:4 (King James Version) 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
    Colossians 1:15 (King James Version) 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    So we can see hear that Jesus is the express Image of the Father, He is the image of the invisible God, but he is not just the image, he is a seperate person than the Father, he says so.

    John 10:30 (King James Version) 30 I and my Father are one.

    Right here Jesus says Him and His Father are one, so again oneness believers say look, Jesus says him and his Father are one, that must mean He is the Father, but what they fail to mention is a little later in John, Jesus explains His statement.

    Jesus says

    John 17:22 (King James Version) 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

    So again Jesus asks His Father that they may be One, just like Him and His Father are One, oneness believers would rather not read you John 17.22, they would rather stick with John 10.30 and leave it at that.

    Isaiah 9:6 (King James Version) 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    Now this is there second favorite verse next to Acts 2.38, they say here Jesus is called Everlasting Father, so that means He is the Father.

    but in short that term Everlasting Father can be translated the Eternal One, All it is really saying is that Jesus Christ is God.

    But now lets see what Jesus said, because Jesus Christ, the Lord of Glory said He had a Father, now you can call Him a Liar, or believe Him.

    I believe Him, but don’t take it from me, lets see what the Word of God says about Oneness, Jesus being the Father.

    this is a group that does not believe in Gods Triunity, they do not believe in God the Son.
    they reject John 3.16.

    they deny that God sent His Son, they believe that the Father in His diety became the son in his humanity, then became the holy spirit, So they believe that God played three roles, kinder like Eddie Murphy did in the nutty professor.

    They say that Jesus Christ the son, did not even exist before he was born of the virgin Mary.

    but Jesus and the aposles preach another gospel, notice they both say He was with the Father, and John 17.5 proves that Jesus did indeed exist before the World, after all He created the world.
    John 17:5 (King James Version) 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
    Here Jesus asks His Father to Glorify him with the glory he had with His Father before the world was.
    John 17:24 (King James Version) 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
    Here Jesus said His Father loved Him before the world was.
    1 John 1:2 (King James Version) 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

    Here Jehovah says Jehovah sent Him, heres what Jehovah the king of Isreal, and his holy redeemer Jehovah of hosts said.

    Zechariah 2:9-12 (King James Version) 9 For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me. 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD. 11 And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee. 12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.

    Isaiah 44:6 (King James Version) 6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

    Here the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all present.

    Isaiah 48:16 (King James Version)16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

    Genesis 1:26 (King James Version) 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    Genesis 3:22 (King James Version) 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    Genesis 11:6-7 (King James Version) 6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.

    God said let US, who is the us if only God was speaking, is was not angels, angels were not created in the image of God, plus back in Isaiah 44.24 God says he created alone.

    Isaiah 44:24 (American Standard Version) 24 Thus saith Jehovah, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am Jehovah, that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth (who is with me?);

    So being God created everything by Him self, then when God said Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness, there is no one else he could be talking to? Jehovah the Father to Jehovah the Son.

    The Father knew He had a Son even in the Old testament.

    Psalm 2:7 (King James Version) I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

    Proverbs 30:4 (King James Version) 4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?

    New testament, Father and Son.

    Matthew 11:27 (King James Version) 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
    Romans 10:9 (King James Version) 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    John 5:18-19 (King James Version)18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

    John 14:23 (King James Version) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    John 15:24 (King James Version) If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

    John 5:30-32 (King James Version) 30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. 31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32 There is Another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

    Interesting Jesus uses the Word Another here when speaking of His Father, It is the same word used when Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit, who He says shall testify of Jesus.The word Another here is the Greek word (Allos), which litterally means someone differant
    John 8:14-18 (King James Version) 14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. 15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

    Now Jesus called His Father Another that tesifys of Him, He said the tesimony of two man is true, He said He was not alone, now whats interesting is Jewish Law said that a testimony of two men is true, not one.

    The oneness believers would tell you that it was Gods deity testifying of Gods humanity. Body and soul.
    so if I went to court and told the judge that I (my body) tesifys of me, but also my soul testifys of me also.

    that would not be legal would it, your body and soul does not add up to two persons.

    Jesus Christ clearly says there is Another that tesifys of Him, the one who sent Him, His Father, and He said the wittness of TWO is true.

    2 John 1:3 (King James Version) 3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
    So they say Jesus is the Father, but again what does Jesus say? Jesus said He was sent by His Father.

    and the aposles declare it.

    Matthew 16:15-17 (King James Version) 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
    1 John 4:14-16 (King James Version) And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

    John 3:16 (King James Version)16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 7:33 (King James Version) 33 Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.

    Galatians 4:4 (King James Version) 4 But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.

    John 17:23 (King James Version) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

    John 6:44 (King James Version) 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Luke 22:42 (King James Version) 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

    Jesus spoke about or prayed to His Father over 200 times in the bible..

    Matthew 26:42 (King James Version) 42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

    the Father spoke of His Son.

    Hebrews 1:1-6 (King James Version) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    Also in Matthew 3.16 which we will get to.

    Jesus Christ prayed to His Father, now oneness will tell you he was praying to himself, which is a doctrine of devils for sure.
    Luke 23:46 (King James Version) 46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
    John 17:1 (King James Version) 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

    Now this one Jesus asks his Father to Glorify his name, and His Faher speaks back to His Son.

    John 12:28 (King James Version) 28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
    John 16:2-3 (King James Version) 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

    Jesus says they do not know the Father nor Him.

    They reject that God sent His son, they reject the Father and the Son, they say the Father became the Son. but I decare it from rooftops, and so did the aposles.

    1 John 2:22-24 (King James Version) 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

    1 John 22.24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

    Luke 10:22 (King James Version) 22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

    They Love one another.

    John 3:35 (King James Version) 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

    John 14:31 (King James Version) 31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

    Now here the Father says He loves His Son, the Son says He loves the Father.

    the oneness pagans will try to say that it was the Father in love with himself, the Father was well pleased with Himself, the Father prayed to himself, the Father shall sit on the right hand of Himself.

    It is a erroneous doctrine I know, but trust me this is a cult, sane people would not be in this, this is satanic.

    Jesus is to be on the right hand of the Father.

    Psalm 110:1 (King James Version) 1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
    Ephesians 1:20-23 (King James Version) 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
    Acts 7:55 (King James Version) 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
    Luke 22:69 (King James Version) 69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
    Acts 5:31 (King James Version) 31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    Hebrews 10:12 (King James Version) 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

    Acts 2:33 (King James Version) 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    Now oneness believers loves Acts 2.38, they will tell you that this verse says there is no trinity, what they need to do is go to Acts 2.33.
    They tell you if you get baptised the way Jesus Christ told you to do it, you are going to hell.

    that you can only be baptised in the name of Jesus.

    But Jesus Christ gave this commandment, in which brings hate to there hearts, because it bring hate to there Father the devils heart.

    Matthew 28:19 (King James Version) 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    Now if you get baptised in the name of Jesus, thats fine, but I did it the way my Lord and Savior told me to do it.

    These oneness pagans scream Jesus this, Jesus that, only in the name of Jesus, but the truth is they do not believe in Jesus Christ, they reject him.

    these are not saved people, they to me are just as lost as Jehovah wittnessess, there are two things Jws and oneness pagans have in common, is they both reject Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Living God.

    But here is one they can not touch, all three again working at one time.

    Matthew 3:16-17 (King James Version) 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Now here Jesus was in the water, the Holy Spirit descended upon Him, and His Father in heaven said this is my beloved Son in whom I AM well pleased.

    Now I quess there excuse for this one is Jesus was in the water, Jesus descended upon him, while Jesus (who according to them should have not even have been in heaven) spoke to Jesus.

    now oneness believers hate this verse, and very rarely will you ever hear them bring this verse up, but it destroys the oneness herecy.

    Oneness is a doctrine that rejects Jesus Christ, they think its legal to reject and denounce the Son of God by taking His name and putting it on the Father.

    so by using the name Jesus, they decieve people into thinking they are of God, but they are not.

    Here all three are distinct, the Son of God says the Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father shall tesify of Jesus.

    John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, 17 even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you.

    John 14:26 But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.
    John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall bear witness of me:
    John 16:13-15 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.
    Jesus in the book of Revelation was the only one found worthy to take the book out of His Fathers hand.

    then they will do what there Father is best at, smoke and mirrors, they say did Jesus have two Fathers? then you would say no, then they will say well the Holy Spirit was the one who brought forth Jesus through the virgin Mary, so the Holy Spirit must be the Father.

    but again they believe Jesus the Son only existed when He was born on the earth, but the truth is, as the bible clearly states Jesus the Son always existed and created all things including the earth.

    you see, Jesus is eternally begotten of the Father, the Holy Spirit brought forth Jesus the Christ into the world, not into existence.

    so you tell them no, the Father is the Father of Jesus.

    interesting enough, If you believe there unbiblical story which states that God lied and He did not really send His Son, He really came to earth Himself, you would think that in the book of Revelation is where God would anounce the truth, and there would be no other mention of the lie of Father and Son.

    well lets see.

    Revelation 3:5 (King James Version) 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
    Revelation 2:26-27 (King James Version) 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

    Revelation 3:21 (King James Version) 21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

    Revelation 3:12 (King James Version) 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
    Revelation 14:1 (King James Version) 1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.

    Revelation 21:22 (King James Version) 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

    Now here at the very end of the revelation of God, John says there is no temple for the Lord God (meaning the Father) AND the Lamb are the temple of it.

    wheres the Holy Spirit? in John, as he is seeing this.

    Revelation 1:10 (King James Version) 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
    so we can see here that there is no revelation even in revelation.

    oneness pagans just refuse to accept Jesus Christ, they refuse to accept Gods Son.

    Now check this out, a oneness pagan told me that Jesus raised Himself from the dead, that must mean Jesus is the Father.

    but very interesting the bible says the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit raised Jesus Christ from the dead.

    we see here that God the Father raised Jesus from the dead.

    Acts 13:30 (King James Version) 30 But God raised him from the dead:

    Acts 5:30 (King James Version) 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

    Ephesians 1:15-20 (King James Version) 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

    Now here it says God the Son raised Himself from the dead.

    John 2:19-21 (King James Version) 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

    Now oneness believers say look Jesus said He can raise Himself, that must mean He is the Father, but Jesus explains it a little better here.

    John 10:17-18 (King James Version) 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

    Now we see the Holy Spirit raised Jesus Christ from the dead.

    1 Peter 3:18 (King James Version) 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    romans 8-11( James Version) 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    So here we see one thing, who raised Jesus from the dead.

    God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

    not three roles of manifestations Jehovah plays, but three divine persons.

    you see when Abraham was commanded by God to sacrafise his son, it was symbolic of how God the Father would send His Son for a ransom for us all.

    what will believers see in heaven? oneness believers asks( three thrones)?

    they will see the Father on His throne, Jesus Christ on His right hand side.
    the Holy Spirit will be in the Saints.

    oneness is not of God, it is from the devil himself.
    Scott Perkins

  13. Jason Smith / Aug 22 2008 3:41 am

    I find it astonishing that some people are so quick to judge those who do not believe exactly the same as they do. The one and only God, Jesus Christ never told us to judge each other but to belive in Him as our Lord and savior If we belive we will seek out the truth in its fullness without one-sidedness and it will be revealed to us through His Word. I am now seeking to find the truth and I not only look at the sites supporting oneness, but those who debate its truth and I have found Oness to be that truth.

    • Scott Perkins / Jun 19 2009 3:42 am

      If you found oneness to be the truth, that says alot about you.. and who your Father is.

      • jesusblogger / Jun 19 2009 7:18 pm

        I have found the Bible to be the truth.

  14. Scott Perkins / Aug 25 2008 3:53 am

    He finds oneness theory to be the truth, are you kidding me, the Father pretending to be his own son, and the son praying to and speaking to himself calling himself his own Father, he finds nutty professorism to be the truth.huh

    so at the baptism it was Jesus in the water, while Jesus descended upon Him, while Jesus from heaven said this is me, in whom I am well pleased, you believe this.

    man give me a call, i have some land I would like to sell you.

    Wow, Jesus told His Father that he hoped we (meaning the Church) would be one as they are one.

    so you say one means one person, so Jesus was saying he hoped we would be one, as Him and His Father are one. so we might one day be one person, as the Father and His Son is one person
    the whole church mushed together as one being.

    but John says, I seen a large mulituide that no man could number of every nation, language, and tongue, the bible says THEY shall be before the throne of God, and God shall wipe all the tears off there eyes, it says these are the ones which washed there robes in the Blood of the Lamb.

    but how can that be, your theory says that one absolutly means one person, so if the church is going to be One as the Father and Son are One, then that means the church will become one single person, this is the one who washed his robe in the blood of the lamb, because one means one, I quess John messed up with all the plaural verses Just like Moses, Isaiah, Zechariah, and Matthew, and John, and Peter, and the rest.

    the bibles says one day they shall all speak with one mouth, wow, you mean one day we (meaning the church) shall be one big mouth, so all the saints shall become one, like Jesus and His Father are one, which you say is not distinct but just one person

    so all the saints shall become one person, and all shall talk with one litteral mouth.

    man, I am learning so much from you, your wisdom reminds me of Walt Disney half asleep.

    Now I know that the saints shall become one as the Father and Son, or one, meaning one person, so only one person is going to heaven? and he shall have one mouth.

    then a oneness believer said, that it is like us, we have a mind, body, and spirit.

    but the problem is my mind never calls my body his beloved Son, and my body never talks to my spirit and calls him my Father.

    but you have shown me a light, granted it’s not the Light of Christ, but it is a light , kinder like a glow stick light.

    theres not much truth in you, well lets be honest, there is not any truth in you at all, but man your one heck of a story teller.

    on biblical truth your much lacking , but science fiction I think you have a gift, and if I were you I would contact the makers of Starwars, or Harry Potter, I believe you can be a fresh voice, and you can convince people that Luke skywalker and Darth Vador are really the same person, and also princess Lia is lukehaving a weird moment

    I will be pulling for you, just please leave biblical interpatation alone.

    all oneness believers give it up, go sell peanuts or something, or join the dolli Lama.

    truth is not your calling, trust me.

    but again, your all the saints shall become one person and talk with one big mouth theory is very creative, I will use that, thank you.

    anyway goodluck, let me know how hollywood goes, and tell your daddy, satan to watch out, the Lord of Glory Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Living God will crush Him and his elect.

    Scott Perkins

  15. jesusblogger / Aug 25 2008 1:04 pm

    Scott,

    If Jesus is God the Son, then why did He need to pray to God the Father. Does one person of the Trinity need to pray to another, does God 2 need to ask God 1 for help?

    The Biblical truth is that in his human nature Christ prayed to God, and God was dwelling inside Him. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself!

    Interesting that The Trinity is such an important doctrine and yet the word Trinity is not in the bible, neither are the words co-equal, co-eternal, substance, person… hold on? Isn’t that all the language used to describe the Trinity? Oh, yes it is.

    So where did that language come from?

    ROME! You are a son of the Roman Catholic church because you hold to their Trinity doctrine. You belong to the Pope Scott! Come out from among them and be ye separate!

    • Scott Perkins / Jun 19 2009 3:46 am

      I hope you read this, it’s been a while since I been on.

      Christ prayed to His Father because Christ was made a little lower than the angels, he was made flesh.

      John 17.5 Jesus prays that him and his Father would again be one. as they were. but at the time he was praying, he had work to do.

      your lost.

      • jesusblogger / Jun 19 2009 7:22 pm

        Scott,

        Your notion of my doctrine of God is incorrect. There is not one place on this blog I have ever said God stopped being Father, or Son. God is Father, Son and Holy Ghost and yet He is one God and does not need to be Three Persons.

        The God I serve is so awesome He can be Father, Son and Holy Ghost and still be one God. I pray to Him using His name – Jesus (Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other name) and He hears me.

        To which of your Three Gods do you pray? Which of your three gods woke you up this morning? Which of your three gods do you love most?

        I pray God would reveal Himself (note not themselves, to you).

        You are made in the image of God, you are spirit, soul and body – yet are you 3 Persons Scott? No! You are one. You have 3 different aspects to your being, but you are 1 man.

        • that guy / Sep 16 2009 2:47 am

          Jesusblogger you dont have a full understanding of what the word Trinity means or its doctrine. Trinity does not mean 3 Gods. They believe in one GOD, who was manifested in 3 different ways. Yes jesus is God thee Almighty but he is not the father. Look at Rev where it says he took the book out of his fathers hands. Oneness belief would mean he took the book out of his hands, but thats not what the word says. It also says that Jesus now sits at the right hand of the Father. Is Jesus sitting at the right hand of Himself. Yes they all are one in spirit but one can’t deny the different attributes of each. God is Spirit, therefore he cant be a fleshly man so he took a piece of himself (this makes them have the same spirit and be one and of the same & at the same time different) and sent it down to be born, thus he made himself flesh. His Spirit (Father God) was still in heaven overseeing this. This does not make 2 Gods but still one since they both share the same spirit. Oneness claims to be the absolute truth, I find that interesting since its doctirine came into existence less than 100 years ago. Your telling me that for the last 1900 some odd years noone has ever had the truth. Hard to believe that one. Especially since many Oneness pastors teach that if you dont believe in this ONENESS where Jesus didnt exist from the beginning you cant go to heaven because you dont have the fulness of truth. I dont think all those people who love Jesus and God for the last 1900 some years have all gone to hell. This is a new movement just like many we seen since the protestant reformation and each has taken the word and twisted it to fit whatever it is that they believe and want to hold and teach. (Thats wrong) This issue shouldnt even be a focus, we should be more focused on God and a personal relationship w/ Him. All this hairsplitting is dumb. But atleast if you are going to form an opinion you should study up on what each doctrine really means and the verses they uses instead of just incinuating that trinity means 3 Gods.

  16. Vanessa / Sep 10 2008 3:55 pm

    WOW!!!! We sound a lot a like the Pharisees in the bible that just couldn’t grip the fact that Jesus was the Messiah/King over the church. They even thought the miracles He performed were by the power of the devil. Wake up!!!!! We need to stop debating theology and start praying for wisdom, which if you seek her as silver and search for her as for hidden treasures; then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God (Proverbs 2:4-5). That way we as MAN won’t lean onto our own understanding (Proverbs 3:5). Why can’t we believe God’s Word for what it is. Why is it that we limit who God really is according to OUR/fleshly logic understanding. OUR/fleshly logic understanding is too limited. Get into God’s word and read it and pray for wisdom and understanding from HIM, and HE’ll give to you freely according to HIS will. Focus and pray on Numbers 23:19, God IS NOT A MAN…and a person is defined as a man. Plus the Bible clearly states in John 4:24, God IS A SPIRIT!!! Is any thing too hard for God? (Genesis 18:14) Well we need to start acting and thinking like there isn’t. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without CONTROVERSY great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. So why is it we are in constant debate, seriously? This said with much love and respect, Vanessa.

  17. Steve / Oct 6 2008 6:09 am

    Yes you are in a cult and thats very sad. Phillipians 1:2 a person called God the Father.

    Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

    John 1:1 Jesus is called God

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

    Acts 5 3-4 Holy Spirit called God,remeber you cant lie to a force but only a person.

    But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

    Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

    Yet here in Isaiah we are told there is only one God.

    Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: �I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me,” (Isaiah 44:6).

    So we know there are three persons called God yet there is only one God.You cant escape the fact that with the nature of the one God there are three persons,the Father,the Son and the Holy Spirit and they are co eqaul,co existent and co eternal.

    But you can come out of it and beleive the Bible whenever you choose,may the Lord help you in your difficult decision.

  18. FatherSonHolySpirit / Oct 9 2008 9:47 pm

    Steve, I have recently been introduced to this oneness pentecostalism and never thought much of it until a teacher during bible study taught that the trinity doctrine was not biblical. He also stated that only his church (Apostolic Faith) had the “real truth”. And that re-baptism is needed if it was not done “In Jesus Name” So for a week I have been researching the Jesus Only belief and had no idea how dangerous it is. I want to know the whole truth so thank you thank you for your indebt blogs on the true essence of God and your explanation and biblical references that show God for who He really is…Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But I would like you to post some information on Oneness claim that baptizing “In the Name of Jesus” is the only correct way and their other belief of speaking in tongues as evidence of salvation.

    But I think it essentially goes back to Oneness not believing that it is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. I also asked this teacher to explain the pluralities in Genesis and in the New Testament scripture where it says that Jesus now sits at the right hand of the Father.

    Thanks again and I pray that all would seek to know the truth because Jesus is soon to come!

  19. jesusblogger / Oct 9 2008 10:15 pm

    A response to Steve and the ‘FatherSonHolySpirit.

    The Trinity is indeed not a biblical doctrine. There is no clear definition of the Trinity in the Bible, and the word Trinity is not in the Bible. Neither are the words which the Trinity relies on found in the scripture: Persons, Hypostates, Substance, Co-Equal, Co-Eternal, God The Son… none of these are biblical language, so how is it the Trinity can be biblical? Can you explain the doctrine of God apart from these phrases?

    The fact that God is One is clearly Biblical, Deut. 6:4 Hear O Israel the LORD our God is One.

    Because God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit does not mean that He is 3 Separate Persons. The Bible nowhere states this explicitly, you have to admit this is something taken as implicit.

    Even the old Trinitarian argument about Gen 1:26-27 ‘Let us make man in our image’ is laughed at by the Jews who understand the Hebrew Language more than anyone. Let us… is explained by the proceeding verse ‘And He made them in His own image’. Further, the Jews correctly understand ‘Let us’ speaks of God’s plenitude of might and majesty. God is so BIG He is unlimited but the scripture is clear – God is ONE (Duet 6:4, Isa. 44 etc).

    The clearest definition of Father, Son and Holy Spirit are found in the Bible. Father is a title, Son is a title, Holy Spirit is a title – God is One and Jesus is His Name. The deity of Jesus is not that of a 2nd Person in a Triune Godhead, it is that of the Everlasting Father and the Almighty God (Isa. 9:6). He is Jehovah, the Father, with us! (Isa. 7:14, Matt 1:21)… this is why in Matt 1:21 the word JESUS is in upper case – pointing to the Old Testament LORD or YHVH, this is who Jesus is.

    When Thomas declared Jesus as ‘My Lord and my God’ (Jhn 20:28), did Thomas know anything of a Trinity? NO! He only knew the God of Israel, the One God, JEHOVAH God, and this is who the Apostle understood Jesus to be.

    Paul met God and asked him, who art thou Lord. What was God’s response – I AM JESUS! (Acts 9:5). Show me where God says I am the Trinity, or I am the 2nd Person and I will abandon the faith in One God and His Son Jesus for the Trinity. But I tell you, you will struggle to see Trinity in the Bible, Persons in the Bible, Three-in-One in the Bible or 3 loving spirits in the Bible.

    Hear (listen, comprehend, stop, think, realise, understand) God (the Creator, the Spirit, The Holy One) is ONE (no other, totally self sufficient, in need of none else). God Is One. This is why in the Old Testament He is called YHVH, Jehovah, meaning ‘The SELF SUFFICIENT ONE’ (not THREE).

    For example, in the Old Testament David speaks of God not taking away his Holy Spirit from him (Ps. 51), is David speaking of 2 persons or 1 God? He is of course referring to One God.

    Can you show me any example in scripture of the Holy Spirit speaking to the Son, or the Father to the Holy Spirit, or the Holy Spirit to the Father? No! It is always the Son to the Father (and vice versa). This is because God was in Flesh, He became a man, the Son (fully God and fully man)… and His humanity related to divinity… hence ‘if it is possible let this cup pass’… otherwise you have a situation where you got God 1 speaking to God 2 – does God pray to God?

    A shame you have not got a grasp of the concept of One God and instead hold to the doctrine that started to be developed properly in 325 AD when it was passed by Constantine as official church doctrine. Even then, it was necessary for later creeds to continue to iron out the Trinity. All the while the bible says:

    “God was manifest in the flesh (notice, not God the Son, but God!)” (1 Tim 3:16).

    The Word was with God and was God (Jhn 1:1-2)… The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us (Jhn 1:14)

    • Scott Perkins / Jun 19 2009 3:49 am

      God is Triune, Deal with it.

      because if you reject Jesus, He will reject you.

      • jesusblogger / Jun 19 2009 7:15 pm

        Scott, rejection of the Trinity is not a rejection of Jesus. How can it be when the Trinity was agreed in AD 325 by a Roman Emperor long after the days of the Apostles. Jesus didn’t even know or use the word Trinity when He was on earth, why is that? Because it was not invented yet.

  20. FatherSonHolySpirit = ONE / Oct 10 2008 4:55 am

    Thanks JesusBlogger! I appreciate your response.
    Not here to debate but to get an understanding of the topics of discussion. I was challenged by someone who as you do, sincerely believe in Jesus only. So I decided to research more into the Jesus Only as well as the trinity doctrines both terminology and terms I find not in the Bible.

    So based on scripture, I believe that there is only one God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Father has a distinct role, the Son has a distinct role and the Holy Spirit has a distince role in the Godhead and are One. I never said anything about persons, substances, co-exiting etc. I believe in the God of Israel. I think you may have wasted some energy trying to convince me that there is One God. There is only One God the Father that I pray to in Jesus’ Name by His Spirit! I believe in the doctrine of Christ. (2 John 1:9)

    So I have few more questions for the bloggers:

    Does the bible speak of three as one? (1 John 5:7)
    Who is sitting at the right hand of the Father in heaven? (Rev. 5:1,7,13)
    How many bear witness in heaven? (1 John 5:7 same)
    Did God the Father die on the cross for our sins? Or did He send His Son?

    With the Love of Christ Jesus. Thanks!

    • Robert / Jan 7 2011 1:45 am

      ”Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchesed with his own blood” Acts 20:28

  21. Donald / Oct 17 2008 5:16 am

    “Trinity” is a word that jesusblogger correctly states is no where found in the Bible. “Oneness” is a word that I myself am stating is also no where found in the Bible. This is a matter of unbalanced scales. Oneness believers alway say this about the word “Trinity” but aren’t willing to talk about the unbiblical language that they themselves use, like “Oneness” or “Sonship role of Jesus Christ”. As if the Son is just a “role”. The fact is that Oneness theology is Modalism, a God that appears in modes or plays roles but is one person, Jesus, whose name is Jesus. For the early Church, the Son was a person who was a real human being, but in essence was none other than “Word” become incarnate in human flesh. They never say the “Father” became incarnate in flesh. The Word who was with God, and was God. The Word is who the writer Hebrews refers to when he states that it was through the (Son, i.e. the pre-existant Word) that God created the worlds through, and then goes on in Chapter 5(?) to speak of a conversation between God and His Word and the body that God had prepared for him. The question remains to why God (the Father) speaks to God (the Word). And backing up to Hebrews 1, the writer further goes on to call the Word become flesh, i.e. the Son, “God” or “theos”. “Thy throne, O God, is forever…” but this is the Father speaking of the Son. In Oneness theology, the Son is just the humanity of Christ. But hear, its clear the Son is God. John’s gospel makes a reference to the Son terminology being a reference to an “equality with God” for when the Jews said that Jesus was making himself “equal with God” by calling “God his Father”. Not only that, Paul himself stated in Phil. 2:5ff that Jesus “thought it not robbery to be equal with God” – hence, “co-equality”. This is Trinitarian concepts that Oneness rejects, “co-equality”. This language that the NT uses of “with” is clearly teaching more than one, but it’s an indivisible unity, “I and my Father are one”. It’s not “three Gods” is “one God”. It’s God who is “echad” or one. Reflecting upon this meaning of one, try reading the meaning of “singularity” into Genesis 2:24. How is it that Adam and Eve become “one” or “echad” flesh? God started out with one (Adam) made out of him two (Adam and Eve) only to bring them back together as “one”. But it’s clearly not a reducing of the plurality, nor is it a division of the unity. This is Trinitarianism. I know I didn’t say much about the Holy Spirit in this, but I wanted to focus on Father-Son relationship, and Father-Son/Word language. These truths are severly diminished in Oneness theology. I know this to be a fact, because I attend a Oneness church. I was raised Oneness. I was saves in a Oneness Pentecostal church. Today, I still attend, but I am clearly a Trinitarian.

  22. Donald / Oct 17 2008 9:14 pm

    Jesusblogger, can you show me anywhere that the Holy Spirit is said to have spoke to anyone for that matter? The point is not all about conversation. The point is that Jesus is in heaven, but he sent another Comforter to remain with us always. This is clearly different than Jesus himself. What is not oftern talk about in the doctrine of the Trinity is periochosis. That all “manifestations” if you prefer that term abide in the others. We I would divert from Trinitarianism is this one point: there was no Son in eternity past. The Son was begotten in space and time. He is never called the Son before his incarnation. He is called “YHWH” or the Word and or was prophesied as the Son to come (Isaiah 9). Where I’m really baffled about in Oneness doctrine besides its view of the Godhead, is how they say God’s name is Jesus, when God says his name if “YHWH” and is his memorial name for all generations. (Exodus 3:15). Jesus merely said he came in His Father’s name, not that his name is the same as His Father’s. He has come “in the name of” the Father. By His authority, representing His person, manifesting his will, on behalf of the Father’s cause, etc. But to say the Father’s name if “Jesus” is to deny Exodus 3:15. The other area of confusion is Phil 2 where Paul says Jesus has been given a name above every name. But the text is probably more acurately rendered as “the name above every name” meaning “YHWH”. Due to his exaltation to the highest place, God bestowed Jesus His own very name, i.e. God placed His name in Jesus. All that the name of YHWH meant to the Jews in the OT, God has taken that and placed it in His Son, so that at the name of (by the authority of) Jesus, every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    • Robert / Jan 7 2011 2:02 am

      JE’SUS is a transliteration of the Hebrew/Aremaic Name of God in the New Testiment ‘ Y.H.W.H.o’shua’, This in turn is a compound Name that uses Gods Old Testiment Name Y.H.W.H.( I AM that I AM ) with the words O’shua ( our savior ) to reveal that God MANifest Himself in flesh to save us from our Sins. Jesus is the Father made into the Son, and bears the Name of the Father also. JE’SUS is Y.H.W.H.o’shua: I AM that I AM our Savior !!!

      • Robert / Jan 7 2011 2:12 am

        …also…Y.H.W.H.o’shua is I understand most commenly pronounced ”YAHWEH’o’shua, or YAH’o’shua, or YAH’shua ( sometimes spelled Y’shua, yet pronounced YAH’shua). YAH’shua became IOU’sus, IUO’sus became JE’sus thru the transliteration process, from the Hebrew to Greek to English. So when We say JESUS is the Name of Y.H.W.H. God of the Old Testiment…Were Right !!!

  23. jesusblogger / Oct 19 2008 5:18 pm

    Praise Jesus Donald,

    In my response I want to concentrate on your point about the thing you find most baffling about Oneness Pentecostal Christians i.e. that we believe the Name of God to be Jesus.

    The Tetragram (YHVH) is the name God revealed Himself as to Moses. He is the One who was, the One who is, the One who will be – THE I AM THAT I AM – Self Existing, Self Generating God.

    The Tetragram (4 Letters) in Hebrew language is a name so sacred it is not to be pronounced. The Four Consonants are read as Adonai in sacred literature (lit. Lord) and when in other literature YHVH is pronounced as Hashem (lit. The Name).

    I am sure you know that The Name when modified with vowels becomes Yahweh/Yahveh. However, the Jews are careful not to call this Name using only Hashem or Adonai.

    The wonderful truth of the Word of God is that we have been given the Name by which to call on YHVH. That Name is JESUS (literally meaning YHVH Saviour).

    This is revealed in Matthew 1:21 where YHVH said we are to call Him JESUS. The scripture of Phil 2 wonderfully agrees with this as it is at the Name JESUS that all in Heaven shall bow and every tongue confess.

    When Paul met God on the Damascus road and asked what His Name was God responded and said: ‘I AM JESUS’.

    The I AM THAT I AM in the Old Testament is JESUS in the New Testament. This is His Name and all who call on it shall be saved (Acts 4:12), for there is salvation in no other Name GIVEN but the Name of JESUS that we can be saved by (Acts 4:12).

    You yourself said: “All that the name of YHWH meant to the Jews in the OT, God has taken that and placed it in His Son” – I could not agree with you more!

  24. jesusblogger / Oct 19 2008 5:39 pm

    Donald,

    In this reply I shall respond to your arguments in favour of plurality in God.

    1. You are right that the words Trinity and Oneness are not in the Bible. However, the word Oneness is not essential to understanding the doctrine of One God in Christ. However, can you explain the doctrine of the Trinity without the un-biblical terms: Trinity, Persons, Substance?

    2. “Oneness is just Modalism”, the real truth is that Oneness is just Monotheism, the same can not be said for Trinitarianism, which falls half way between Monotheism and Polytheism.

    3. The Bible clearly states that the Son is the Father in flesh. Isaiah 7:14, 9:6. Thomas recognised this when he called Jesus ‘my Lord and my God’ – how many God’s did Thomas have? Only the Father.

    WHEN DID THE HOLY SPIRIT SPEAK TO ANYONE?

    “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith” (1 Tim. 4:1)

    “Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia” Acts 16:6

    “And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting” Acts 11:12.

    FOR THAT MATTER, WHO IS THE FATHER OF CHRIST?

    “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost” (Matt. 1:18).

    “The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ the Son of God” (Mk 1:1).

    “Grace be unto you, and peace from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Cor. 1:3)

    Arguably, the Holy Spirit is the Father of Jesus. This is because the Holy Spirit is none other than YHVH, the Jews of the Old Testament understood this – hence when they spoke of the Spirit they only ever meant the Holy One, The LORD.

  25. jesusblogger / Oct 19 2008 5:49 pm

    ANSWERS FOR FATHERSONHOLYSPIRIT = ONE.

    You wrote:

    “So I have few more questions for the bloggers:

    Does the bible speak of three as one? (1 John 5:7)
    Who is sitting at the right hand of the Father in heaven? (Rev. 5:1,7,13)
    How many bear witness in heaven? (1 John 5:7 same)
    Did God the Father die on the cross for our sins? Or did He send His Son?”

    ANSWERS AS FOLLOWS…

    1. 1 Jn 5:7 does speak of 3-as-1. However, is this 3 manifestations of One God, or 3 Persons? I would argue it is 3 manifestations of One God. Also, this verse is omitted from many translations of the Bible or highlighted e.g. check Scofield Study Bible. As it is commonly believed this verse was added at a later date to back up the Trinity. I do not know if this is the case, but either way I see One God in it. Also, it does not mention Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It mentioned Father, Word and Spirit.

    2. God is a Spirit (Jhn 4:24) as Spirit does not have a right or a left hand side. God is omnipresent. However, when John was in Heaven he said He only saw One sitting on the Throne – Jesus (Rev. 4:2). Right hand of God speaks metaphorically of the executive power and authority given to Jesus.

    3. For how many witnesses there are in Heaven see point 1 and 2.

    4. Did the Father die on the cross. No. God is a Spirit as such He can not die. This is why God manifested in flesh (1 Tim 3:16) being born of a virgin as prophesied (Isa. 7:14; Gen 3:15). He lived among us fully God and fully man. He was the Son of God and yet He was God. The man Christ Jesus, the Word which became flesh (Jhn. 1:14) died for our sins. However, the eternal Spirit within Him did not die. Instead as the Mighty God the Father He was able to raise up Himself as the Son and continues to reign from within His Son today. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.

    Hope this helps?

  26. Scott Perkins / Nov 11 2008 1:57 am

    To the Jesus blogger.

    the fact is you do not believe in Jesus Christ, you reject that God sent his only begotten Son.

    let me ask you something Mr jesus blogger.

    In Zecariah 2.10 the Lord God Jehovah said.

    Zechariah 2:10-11. 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion; for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith Jehovah.

    11 And many nations shall join themselves to Jehovah in that day, and shall be my people; and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that Jehovah of hosts has sent me unto thee.

    Now here Jehovah is talking, but yet says in that day you shall know the Jehovah has sent him.

    In fact Jehovah the Father sent Jehovah His Son.

    God said he sent his only begotten son, but yet you say God was lying to everyone, God did not said his Son, the Father became the son.

    sorry Mr Jesus blogger, you are a false prophet. and you will die in your sins, because you reject the son of God.

    lets go to Isaiah 48.16 Come ye near unto me, hear thee this, I have not spoken in secret, from the time that it was there Am I, and Now the Lord God and His Spirit has sent me.

    again God is talking, but yet says God and His Spirit has sent him.

    the Bible says clearly.
    2 John 1:9 (King James Version)
    Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

    now here it says BOTH the Father and the Son.

    your satanic doctrine clearly says there is no both, there is no Son.

    I don’t know if the Father is the Son, then thats one, wheres the both come from.

    lets go to 1 John 5.5 1 John 5:5 (King James Version)
    5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

    Wow the bible says I am a overcomer because I believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

    you reject that jesus blogger, whats that say about you.

    I could go on and on, I only pray that there are people out there that believe the truth.

    heres the truth.

    God is Triune, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, there is three distinct persons of the One and Only Lord God of Isreal. thats fact.

    Oneness is like the Jehovah wittnessess, the Mormons, and all the other Jesus hating groups.

    the differance is with oneness, people here you say Jesus this, Jesus that, only in the name of Jesus, sweet Jesus, but when the mask is off, you do not even believe in Jesus, you reject that God sent His Son.

    God the Father gave us his Son, you reject it. you just put the name of Jesus on the Father, thinking you can bypass the Son.

    but Jesus says, no man will go to the Father, but through me.

    so good luck to you, satan blogger.

    God told Abraham to sacrafice his Son, that was symbolic of when God would send His only begotten Son, for God so loved the world, that whosoever believes his His Son, shall not perise but have everlasting life.

    satan blogger, I do not know how you sleep at night, I just hope you been bewitched, I truly hope you do not mean to bring people to hell.

    God is Triune, DEAL WITH IT,.

    Scott Perkins, defender of the Truth.

  27. jesusblogger / Nov 11 2008 10:18 pm

    Dear Scott,

    I was sad to read your last comments, you surely have not yet perfected speaking the truth in love. Your assumptions were delivered with anything but love, and they were also far from being true.

    Let’s start with your main argument, namely that according to the Gospel of Scott Perkins (self appointed ‘defender’ of ‘truth’ – more like catholic crusader or inquisition member) I do not believe in Jesus and am therefore of the devil, making me ‘the satan blogger’ (ROFL).

    Scott, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God, sent by YHVH to redeem us (Jhn 3:16).

    I believe that Jesus, the Son of God, is the Eternal Word of God made flesh, the Logos (Word, Expressed Thought of God).

    According to Jhn 1:14 “the Word was made flesh”. It does not say God the Son was made flesh, neither does it say Jehovah 2.0 was made flesh. The Son is the Word made flesh, The Son is begotten, ‘God sent His Son made of a woman, made under the law’ (Gal 1:4).

    The Son was given by God to die for our sin and rise again on the 3rd day, hence John calls him the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the World.

    The Son of God we both believe is fully human and fully divine – don’t we? Human enough to die and shed blood, without which there can be no remission of sins (lev 17:11). Divine enough to rise again and becoming both lamb, priest and God accepting the offering. This makes Jesus our ultimate redeemer and Salvation a glorious act fully of God’s grace – with his own arm he bought salvation as Isaiah said.

    Now you mentioned Zechariah speaking about TWO Jehovah’s. Do you even know what the word Jehovah means? It is an English transliteration of the Hebrew YHVH (Yahewh). The Sacred Name means: The Self Existent One – He who is self-sufficient and limitless.

    God is ONE. You are a polytheiest saying God is Two, or Three. That is not Bible.

    Zechariah was a Jew, son of Abraham, he held to the SCHEMA ‘hear O Israel the LORD (YHVH) our God (Elohim) is one LORD (YHVH).’ That is the rallying cry of God’s people in Deuteronomy 6:4. The Bible says there is only 1 YHVH, so where did you find 2 more from? Not even the Almighty One has ever heard of them?

    The wonderful revelation is that there is one God, Jesus is that God in flesh, and we call His humanity the Son, as God Himself said “thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee”.

    The Spirit of God is not a seperate person, God is a Spirit. The Spirit moved over the face of the deep in Creation and yet Moses never called God Two Persons! Come to think of it, neither did God – so why do you?

    • Scott Perkins / Jun 19 2009 3:57 am

      Satan Blogger, let me ask you this, why is Jesus still seen by John in Revelation 21.22? after all, the revelation of Jesus Christ is done now, but yet it says there is no temple there, for the Lord God AND the Lamb or the temple of it.

      why does he still see two?

      O, when you ask wheres the Holy Spirit? look at Revelation 1.10. John was in the Spirit on the Lords day.

      Acts 7.55 Stephen, being filled with the Holy Spirit looked up and seen Jesus on the right hand of God.

      You say there is no Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. theres only one substance, spirit playing three roles.

      But why is it, when the Holy Spirit is in someone, they see Jesus and His Father?

  28. Donald / Feb 14 2009 6:14 am

    Jesusblogger,

    I am still reading your posts, but I had to stop to respond to something I just read.
    You wrote: The wonderful truth of the Word of God is that we have been given the Name by which to call on YHVH. That Name is JESUS (literally meaning YHVH Saviour).

    My response: (That Name is actually not JESUS. JESUS is a name that came into existance less than 500 years ago when the English language grafted in the letter “J”. His actual name is YESHUA, but Oneness believers don’t call Him by this Name, and most get offended by suggestions that JESUS is not His name and YESHUA is His name. YESHUA [while having a theophoric reference to YHWH in the “y” or ‘yod’, it actually only means “salvation”. It is the masculine form of “yeshuah” rendered as “salvation” in our Bibles. Strong’s Concordance defines it as “he will save”, which fits perfectly with Matthew 1:21, “for ‘he shall save’ his people from their sins.”

    You wrote: This is revealed in Matthew 1:21 where YHVH said we are to call Him JESUS. The scripture of Phil 2 wonderfully agrees with this as it is at the Name JESUS that all in Heaven shall bow and every tongue confess.

    My response: Can I correct you here? You said that Phil 2 wonderfully agrees with this as it is ‘at the Name JESUS that all in Heaven shall bow…’. This is typical of the Oneness reading of this verse. The texts actually says that ‘at the name OF JESUS’. This is a HUGE difference. The language ‘at the name of Jesus’ means in this context ‘at the now lifted up and higly exalted position of Jesus who has all authority in heaven and in earth’. If it had said at the name “Jesus”, then it would be diffenent. This one word “of” makes a ton of difference. The reason Jesus can’t be the name of God is that Joshua, and Barjesus’ father was named Jesus already. And Jesus (i.e. Yeshua) was one of the 10 most common Jewish names of that day. Does God share his name with others? In fact the Septuagint which was available during Jesus’ ministry had already transliterated the name Joshua (i.e. Yehoshua) as ‘Iesous’ as well as Joshua’s shortened form Jeshua (i.e. Yeshua). Both forms were transliterated by the 70 or 72 rabbis in the Greek translation of the Old Testament as ‘Iesous’. This is the same name that is given in the Greek New Testament for our Lord. So if this name was not given to Christ only, can it be said that Joshua also had God’s name, or even Jeshua in the book of Nehemiah? They both were called Iesous in Greek.

    When Paul met God on the Damascus road and asked what His Name was God responded and said: ‘I AM JESUS’.

    (Paul met the risen and reiging Lord on the Damascus road.) “there is but one God, the Father, and but one Lord, Jesus the Messiah…”

    The I AM THAT I AM in the Old Testament is JESUS in the New Testament. This is His Name and all who call on it shall be saved (Acts 4:12), for there is salvation in no other Name GIVEN but the Name of JESUS that we can be saved by (Acts 4:12).

    My response: This is one of semantics. We often read our way of speaking in the Semetic language of the Jews. It’s often not a good way of reading certain texts. For instance, how does one read Psalms where it says “the name of the LORD is a stong tower, the righteous runneth into it and are safe”? Does one run into four large letters to find safety? Or does one run unto the LORD Himself? Or what about Revelation that speaks of Sardis having “a few names that have not defiled their robes”? Does names have robes that can be defiled or do people have robes? This is the same point in Acts 4:12, “there is no other name”, i.e “there is no other person”.

    You yourself said: “All that the name of YHWH meant to the Jews in the OT, God has taken that and placed it in His Son” – I could not agree with you more!

    (Yes, while at the same time never changing his own name. See Zechariah 14:9. “in that day YHWH shall be king over all the earth, and there shall be one YHWH and his name one.” This is prophetic of the future, so why doesn’t it say his one name is JESUS?)

    • jesusblogger / Feb 16 2009 10:12 pm

      Donald,

      You seem to be de-constructing the Name of Jesus, so that it is less significant than the Bible states.

      The scripture declares that: Jesus has been given a name that is above every name.

      Jesus declares that He is the ‘I AM’ and the Alpha & Omega – this is none other than God Himself (Jhn 1:1, 1:14).

      The name Jesus means: Jehovah Saviour – this is clearly stated in Strong’s Exhaustive, Thayer’s Hebrew Greek Lexicon, Vines et al. Look again.

      True, Hebrew does not have a ‘J’ the letter is ‘Y’, but also true is that the name is speaks of the fame of the one bearing the name. Wrapped in the name JESUS is all the fame and character of The Messiah, God Incarnate. So, when we call Jesus for healing God responds to that Name.

      All hail the power of Jesus’ name, let angels prostrate fall… There is indeed One Lord, and His Name is One.

    • jesusblogger / Feb 16 2009 10:12 pm

      Donald,

      You seem to be de-constructing the Name of Jesus, so that it is less significant than the Bible states.

      The scripture declares that: Jesus has been given a name that is above every name.

      Jesus declares that He is the ‘I AM’ and the Alpha & Omega – this is none other than God Himself (Jhn 1:1, 1:14).

      The name Jesus means: Jehovah Saviour – this is clearly stated in Strong’s Exhaustive, Thayer’s Hebrew Greek Lexicon, Vines et al. Look again.

      True, Hebrew does not have a ‘J’ the letter is ‘Y’, but also true is that the name is speaks of the fame of the one bearing the name. Wrapped in the name JESUS is all the fame and character of The Messiah, God Incarnate. So, when we call Jesus for healing God responds to that Name.

      All hail the power of Jesus’ name, let angels prostrate fall… There is indeed One Lord, and His Name is One.

  29. Donald / Feb 14 2009 6:29 am

    see my videos at my website on YouTube just add the /bulovawatches after the YouTube web address

    “Oneness Pentecostal issues…the Name of God”

    “From Hebrew Yeshua to English Jesus”

    “Jesus of Nazareth’s Title on the Cross

    “The Name of God”

    “Baptism” and “Is There Really a Baptismal Formula?”

    • jesusblogger / Feb 16 2009 10:26 pm

      Is there really a baptismal formula?

      YES.

      The candidate must have total faith in His death, burial and resurrection.

      AND

      The baptiser must be one with authority and the Spirit of God, like the Apostles who does the baptism in the Name of Jesus…

      Acts 2:38, Acts 10:44, Acts 19, Romans 6.

      The formula is in the Name of Jesus. It is to call on His Name as this is the Name Given whereby we must be saved Acts 4:12.

  30. Donald / Mar 29 2009 2:29 am

    I disagree with your evaluation of my videos. I simply have tried to clarify. So let me understand you. Am I reading your statements cleary? Are saying that Jesus was given a name about every name (which the Bible does say) but that Paul was talking about the name “Jesus” and not “Yahweh”? If that is what you are saying, then why was this not seen earlier when several other Israelis before Christ also bore this name? When did this become the name above all names. Secondly, does the word contradict itself? God’s name is not Jehovah Saviour, it is Yahweh. God’s name is not “I Am”, it is descriptive of what Yahweh means. Jesus was given the Divine Name, YHWH, it was bestowed upon Him because of who He is. This isn’t a literal naming, but it does say enough. As much as Emmanuel wasn’t a literal naming, it gets to the point. Most have not recognized the fact that the name Yeshua was within the ten most common names during the days of the apostles, among the likes of Sh’mon (Simon), Yehudah (Judah), (Yosef) Joseph, etc. Did every individual then who had the name “Yeshua” have “the name above every name”? Because of this bestowal of the Divine Name upon Yeshua (considering that God becoming incarnate emptied Himself, and thus conforming to humanity, needed this bestowal to be exalted, much like the man Jesus needed to be empowered by the Holy Spirit) that now in His exaltation, everything “at the name – key word – “of” – Jesus” must bow. “Of” makes a whole difference. Don’t you think that if Paul meant the word/name “Jesus/Yeshua” he would have said at the sound of the word “Jesus”?? No, he uses Hebraic language, “At that name of”, or like other gospel writers, “in the name of”. It has a conotation that is ‘not’ equivalent to just saying someone’s name. Recall the seven sons of Sceva who tried using the name “Jesus” rather than “the name of Jesus”..they weren’t his followers. Even though they used his “name” they didn’t go “in his name”. They used it like magic, much like apostolics do today. The name of Messiah is not magic. The Greeks thought that the names of their gods were magical, that if one said the name of a god, that it could be used to congure a response from that god. Is this the way that the God of the Hebrews works?

  31. Donald / Mar 29 2009 2:33 am

    One must not merely use the Messiah’s spoken name, one is required to do it “in His name”, i.e. by his authority, in tune with his mission, according to his instructions, in tune with his character. This is what doing all things in word or deed in the name of the Lord Yeshua means.

  32. Donald / Mar 29 2009 2:47 am

    Jesusblogger, you wrote: Is there really a baptismal formula?

    YES.

    The candidate must have total faith in His death, burial and resurrection.

    AND

    The baptiser must be one with authority and the Spirit of God, like the Apostles who does the baptism in the Name of Jesus…

    Acts 2:38, Acts 10:44, Acts 19, Romans 6.

    The formula is in the Name of Jesus. It is to call on His Name as this is the Name Given whereby we must be saved Acts 4:12.

    Donald: If this is so, prior to the Oneness Pentecostal split from the AOG, nobody was baptizing with formulaic expression that said “in Jesus’ name”, except if you conclude that this is also what the apostles said. So this would make all those who attempted to follow the Lord from the time of the apostles death up until the earlier part of the 20th Century lost and without salvation, because salvation is in what the baptizer says over the candidate. Am I reading you correctly? “We must be saved by that name” is what you say. I conclude from Acts 4:12 that the Hebraism is about being saved by His authority, based upon His exaltation, His Divine nature as God, his accomplished work on the cross, not because he has a name that means “salvation”. If so, John the Baptist could have gotten the whole thing started from the beginning if he had simply invoked the name “Yeshua” over those repentant souls. Never mind that, but back to the ACts 4:12, the basis of this statement was about who had authority to respresent God’s way of salvation, the apostles who were “sent in Jesus’ name” or the rabbis? This is the basis, for the rabbis (Pharisaic Judaism) maintained that they were the inheritors of Moses’ seat and thus acted on behalf of God or in the name of God. Well, if that were so, then they would not have crucified God’s Anointed, and they would have followed Him, but now God has made Yeshua of Nazareth preiminent, and above all, and “all authority in heaven and in earth” has been given to Him, so this is why there is salvation “in none other” name (power, authority). The rabbis were the ones that Yeshua had said “shut up the kingdom of heaven” by not entering into it nor allowing others to enter into it. This is the basis of Kefa’s (Peter’s) statement. It must be put back into it’s Hebraic world for us to understand it.

  33. stan cooper / Oct 29 2009 2:44 am

    i was born again at early age, because i accepted jesus as lord and saviour. after many years of playing in hockie tonks and trying to drink the well dry, i returned to christ around 1989. i felt the need to be babtized so i found a babtist church preacher who reluctantly agreed to babtize me.
    with that done, i started going to a nazrine church. i liked the music, but there was no way i could fit in for some reason. then some one invited me to a penacostal church. i started playing guitar on the platform.after sometime some one ask me if i had been babtized and i said yes. then they asked how?
    they said that would not do and that i needed to be babtized in the name of jesus. i had started in 1989 to read the bible regularly, doing two chapters in the old and two chapter in the new everyday. so i was begining to get alot of knowledge of the scriptures. one day i stood up and made the point that the bible says to (red word of jesus) babtize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. well you could feel a spirit of coldness come over the pews. some one hollered some thing, which i did not quite hear plainly. after reading some of the litature that one of the many preacher that church had, had written and asking the pastor how come he was letting people write pamplets and fileing them to read, when they were clear contradictions of what the bible teaches. i then decided to go to another
    church. Now i will get to the point that i am trying to make. i went to another church which i thought was Spirit filled. this church didnot make a big tado about being babtized in jesus name only.
    however after awhile they started having other miniters come in and started to preach that doctrine.
    Now i am really getting to the point. it does not matter how much scripture you point out to a true-oneness person, or how many good points you make. most of them have been taught this doctrine since their childhood, and you will never change their mind or heart. Jesus summed it up this way
    “this kind can only come out by prayer and fasting”.
    they do not realized it but it is the spirit of anti-christ that they are teaching and they are worshiping at the ALTAR OF ONENESS.
    THANKS ,STAN

  34. Michael / Dec 30 2009 11:32 pm

    There is not 1 person on the face of the earth that knows the truth. Argue with me about it if you wish, i don’t care. Faith alone does not answer the questions. Here’s a good 1, why was the book of enoch left out of the bible? There’s no answer. Another 1, how did the world populate? Incest had to have played a part, there’s no other way it could have.

    Most christians i have spoken with can not or will not answer questions that i have, make me wonder. Use your brain people, thats what it’s there for. Don’t believe something just because that’s what people tell you to do, look for the answer.

    I really feel if god was real it would’t be that difficult to find out the truth.

    If anyone has any answers, proof or whatever you wanna call it, i would love some feedback.

    • jesusblogger / Dec 31 2009 1:39 pm

      It is a FACT that the world populated originally via the sons and daughters of Adam. This was necessary for the earth to be populated. Then after the flood again it was the family of Noah that grew into all the nations of the earth today. However, notice that it was at Mount Sinai once the earth was populated that God forbade the marriage of close family as it was not necessary any more. Was it a sin for Adam’s offspring to marry and multiply the earth? No, because where there is no law there is no sin. Also, God commanded that they do this to “replenish” the earth.

      Michael, the book of Enoch did not make it into the Biblical Cannon because by the time the New Testament writer Jude quoted from Enoch the Old Testament Canon was about to be closed in c. AD 100 at the Council of Jamina. At the time of the Apostles and Christ works such as the Greek version of the 39 books of the Old Testament called the Septuagint (or LXX) were already completed and in wide use by the Jews. Enoch was considered a religious book, but not one that was to be included in the canon of divinely inspired scripture.

      Also, because it is called “The book of Enoch” does not necessarily mean it was written by him. As in the old days writers would use the name of someone famous to lend credibility to their work. And think of it like this, the Apostle Paul quotes from pagan writers in his sermon on Mars Hill “In him we live and move and have our being”, but just because the Apostle mentioned it, does not mean it should be in our Bible as a divinely inspired book – it was just used to make a point.

      Bro Michael, have faith in what Jesus said: “I am the truth”. Because Jesus is the truth, truth can be known by having a relationship with Jesus and studying His word that He can progressively reveal Himself to us. But we need to have faith so that we can know the truth, and the truth will make us free.

  35. Bible Prophecy / Apr 20 2010 12:58 am

    Father God I ask you touch this person, and this person will post this comment in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth- AMEN…

    Abba Father God is in Heaven, and the Son Jesus Christ is alive, and was living before he came to the Earth (The World) as the only Begotten Son in the Flesh to save souls (spirits) from Hell. (Read The Powerful Scriptures 1 Peter 1:20, John 17:5, John 17:24, Hebrews 1:2, Hebrews 1:10

    1 John 2:23
    2Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

    He is antichrist, that denieth the Father, and the Son.

    1 John 2:22
    Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

    (the Son of God) Daniel 3:25

    Daniel 3:25
    He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like (the Son of God) KJV

    (Notice in Daniel 3:25)
    The Son of God Rescued Shadrach, Meshack, And Abednego from the danger, and this was in the Old Testament. Praise God!

    Notice in Daniel Daniel 7:13 Son of Man(Jesus Christ) and the Ancient of Days (Father God) (They)

    Daniel 7:13
    I saw in the night visions, and, behold (one like the Son of man) came with the clouds of heaven, and came to (the Ancient of days) and (they) brought him near before him.

    ———————————————-

    All things into his hand (The Son King Jesus Christ)

    John 3:35
    The Father loveth the Son, and hath given (all things into his hand)

    All judgment unto the Son (King Jesus Christ)

    John 5:22
    For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed (all judgment unto the Son) King Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

    He that overcometh) I (Son Jesus Christ) will confess his name (before my Father,and before his angels)

    Revelation 3:5
    (He that overcometh) the same shall be clothed in white raiment, and I will not blot out his name out of (the book of life) but I will confess his name (before my Father, and before his angels)

    (Notice In Revelation 3:5)
    The Son Jesus Christ with the Book of Life, and Jesus is the one who will not blot out our names, and the Son Jesus Christ will Confess the names before Father God, and his Angels.

    One God- The GODHEAD (Us, Our) Abba Father God, and the Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost (GodHead) Romans 1:20

    Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let (us) make man in (our) image, after (our) likeness.

    Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of (us)

    ——————————————————————

    (The Spirit of his Son) into your hearts, crying (Abba, Father)

    Galatians 4:6
    And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth (the Spirit of his Son) into your hearts, crying (Abba, Father)

    Notice in Galations 4:6 Father God sends Forth the (Spirit) of his Son, Jesus Christ!

    The Son Jesus Christ has a Spirit, and his spirit in us Cries out to Abba Father God.

    John 14:6
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, (but by me)
    ——————————————————————

    Kind Regards,

    King Jesus Christ of Nazareth is LORD…

  36. Joe / Apr 28 2010 2:58 am

    Totally Separate, Totally One: TRINITY? Maybe/Maybe not. Named Jesus better believe it.
    Praise the LORD GOd,Ywh for His word will make manifest the truth. It does not require interpretation or analysis.
    MY meat is to do the will of HIM that sent ME and to finish HIS work Jn4:34 O, MY FATHER, if it be possible let this cup pass from ME: nevertheless not as I will, but as THOU wilt. Mt26:39
    His Name shall be called Jesus, Ihave come in my Father’s Name,When the Comforter, whom the Father will send in My Name, There is no other Name Given among men whereby we must be saved. Peter full of the Holy Ghost say Repent and be baptized in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.

  37. Joe / Apr 28 2010 3:48 am

    I am not Oneness pentecostal, but was raised COGIC. The word revealed to me that baptism was necessary for salvation. I obeyed this command in CoC. Unfortunately, I stopped searching the scripture for the next step, you know the step that follows Believe/Repent/Confess/Baptized (in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins)this was the step I missed. Godhead, use whatever doctrine you want to Let me Give you thus saith the Lord: Jn 15:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my Name, he shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance whatsoever I have said unto you”. Does Mt28:19 = Acts2:38? Yes, The Lord said baptize ‘in the name of’three times;indicating one name for all three. Peter thru the Reminder,Revealer,Teacher,Comforter said baptize
    ‘in the NAME of JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SIN AND YOU SHAL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST. The Apostles did not forget what the master said they could not. The Holy Ghost, The Comforter, The Revealer, The Reminder of Whatsoever Jesus said to them, did not forget – could not forget. There is perfect harmony in the Word of God, let God be true and every man a liar.

    May God bless the hearers and the doers of his holy Word. Let the people hear what the Spirit of the Lord says.

  38. Deck Gill / Apr 30 2010 8:27 pm

    Folks I;m not here to argue, I came upon ths blog by accident.
    I am conserned tho, are we searching (looking for a fight), or are we looking to find the truth & salvation.?
    I do believe if we will get on our knees and pray when reading the bible, how could we not find the truth.?
    I do NOT believe there is going to be multiple heavens, one for you and another for another faith.
    I do believe we are living in the new testament age, I believe the new testament can save us if we will obey it, Jesus is the only one to die for my sin, Jesus is the GOD of the new testament.
    I don’t answer to any other, I don’t pray to any other.
    Jesus never meant for his word to be so devided.
    Seems everwhere I look/read I find people fighting over the scriptures, arguing only stirs up hate, I’ve never seen it save one soul.
    I just want to be saved..don’t YOU..?
    I need your prayers, I’m NOT home yet.

    • davider / Jan 30 2011 10:25 pm

      I agree… The only thing that bugs me is that apos and oneness are ready to damn everyone to hell and not fellowship with the rest of the church because they think we believe in Pagan theology… So sad. :(

  39. My Name is Kathlikos "Universal" / Jan 27 2011 5:40 am

    Jesus Christ established his Church on earth by doing the following things…

    1) granting his apostles the ability to forgive sins
    2) commanding his apostles to offer the Eucharist (his living flesh)

    and many other things that Protestant religions do not believe in. by what authority did these things change? Martin Luther? And im sorry…im not following any cult that started in 1906. Jesus Christ established his Church somewhere between 26-36 A.D. That is the Church I am going to follow. That Oneness Pentecostalism crap is a cult. Probably one of the worst of the Protestant (Puritan) Cults.

    So if you ask me….Protestant Faiths are all a Cult. None of it reflects the truth. The Catholic Faith is the One, Holy, and Apostolic Church.

  40. Davider / Jan 29 2011 2:53 pm

    I am dating an “apostolic” girl. She is 20 years old and I am 25. I was raised in a “trinitarian” faith. And the words TRINITY and ONENESS PENTECOSTAL will never be seen in scripture. So let’s do away with that. All the oneness people from her church and home groups have told me here and there that I need to get re-batpised. So I started doing research on what oneness people are all about and if they have the real truth.

    My most important source was the Holy Spirit himself… I have fasted, and prayed hours on end for a revelation of “OH I GET IT, JESUS HAS NO FATHER!” and believe you me oneness friends, I am still waiting for that revelation. When i “truly” became saved about a year and a half ago, I was baptized by the Holy Spirit.. and by this I mean, that God in heaven, loved me sooOO much, that through his Holy Spirit, he revealed Jesus to me (Keep in mind I was raised in “church” for 24 years). When I felt Gods presence, I didn’t immediately speak in tongues, as a matter of fact, I felt this warm, numbness and upon other things that words can’t describe, and it was amazing, and it WAS GOD! And it is GOD who continues to chizzle me down everyday. I did speak in tongues a few months later, and it was in order, I didn’t go all crazy or do it in front of a congregation, it was AMAZING!!.. Now I don’t know whether its The Father, or the Son or the Holy Spirit working in me, but in the bible I read Jesus say that the Father will send us a comforter… and that’s what I read, and when Jesus says I will not leave you coverless, I sit and rejoice and say “YES LORD! THANK YOU JESUS ITS ONLY THROUGH YOU AND BECAUSE OF YOU THAT I HAVE THIS!!!” So how God works, I really don’t understand but he does, and while I’m sinful and not infallible, I will continue to follow his word.

    Now, I just gave you my testimony. So when I first hung out with my apostolic friends, the first thing that ever made an impact on me where they told me that I believed in 3 Gods.

    THREE. GODS.

    WHAT THE HECKK !!!!!?!?!?!?!?!

    The first thing that came to mind was “WOW, that is the most blasphemous thing I’ve ever heard in my life!”

    Then I heard another one of them say “It didn’t take THREE GODS (sarcastically) to get our salvation!”

    AGAIN, it struck a huge chord in me. I was just wondering how these people can come out and flat out, essentially blaspheme God like that when I have been taught my whole life that He is One God, and his word says it very clearly. It really really really made me wonder if I was the one that was wrong. So I started praying and praying and praying about it. And then I talked to this really cool oneness pastor at Dennys one night with his wife, till like 4 am, and I just kept defending the fact that if Jesus said he had a father, HE HAD A FATHER!!!! And they were really understanding of me, and at one point, I kid you not, i was soooo uncomfortable, I told him, hey we have to stop because my spirit is discerning something really fishy.. So we stopped for a bit… and then kept talking about it, and I told him how when I was doing research on the subject, and praying TONS, I still couldn’t get a revelation of, “I GET IT, THE FATHER NEVER GAVE US HIS SON”. So after the dinner, I walked him to his car and he said, “You’re in the wrong baptizm, and I was like “really?” and he gave me the most puzzled but humbled look and said “… I don’t know, pray about it…” And believe you me my apos and onenesser’s, I’m still praying about it.

    I also remember another nice girl who said, “Oh, Father Son and HS are just characteristics of God” And I seriously just was like “nawww, I’m not feelin it” I just wasn’t comfortable hearing that about the Living God that I serve.

    So anywho, when I got down to talking with my gf about these matters, I found out, SHE DOESN’T EVEN KNOW SCRIPTURE, UNDERSTANDS IT OR WANTS TO READ IT!, or how to defend her faith, neither did her friends! They were all just ready to condemn me because they’ve all been raised with the mindset of “If you don’t get baptised Acts 2:38, your not saved!”

    It really amazed me that I had to walk her through scripture and really show her what it says not just just in Acts 2, 4, 10 and all the other verses you guys repeatedly quote to fight against other Christians.. But just to show her that I don’t believe in “THREE GODS” but that I absolutely believe in One God as the bible says… and I asked her this along with the Pastor… I said to them, when did you first get the revelation of the oneness, that Jesus has no Father.. and they were so confused, they were like, “well never, I just was raised that way and I believe it as truth”

    And I said, so you’ve never ever gotten the revelation of God and the oneness?
    “Nope”
    So I said, I guess you’ve never really gotten a revelation of God then..

    And they were like …”i guess not” They just assumed like ALL THE REST OF US, that because we grew up in the “right and sound doctrine” God was that, and that’s all we need to know about him… as if we don’t have to seek him any more, and our pastors are gonna escort us right into heaven.

    So I watched this Francis Chan youtube video where he talks about how we need to take God more serious, and he goes on saying that if we were to be stranded on an island for years just you, the bible and the Holy Spirit, what kind of doctrine and/or gathering would you come up with… And it really made sense to me, what would we come up with… He also believes very strongly in, just like we played “simon says” or follow the leader… He said the same rules don’t apply to “Jesus Says” or “Follow the Jesus” and I was like OMG thats so right! EVERY word that Jesus spoke was truth, and that goes right along with Matthew 28:19!

    Look my bros and sis in oneness and apo groups… If Jesus says, all authority on earth and in heaven has been given unto me (NOT Peter)… and then says to baptise in the name of … well you know…
    I THINK HE MEANS JUST THAT! AND IM SICK AND TIRED OF YOU GUYS PUTTING YOUR OWN INTERPRETATION INTO THE TEXT! IF HE SAID TO DO IT… YOU BETTER DO IT! BECAUSE WE’RE ALL GONNA BE ACCOUNTABLE ONE DAY AND I’M SCARED FOR YOU GUYS…

    LISTEN TO ME, IM SCARED THAT YOU WOULD DENY THAT HE HAS A FATHER, AND AT ANY POINT YOU ARE WILLING TO SAY THAT THE FATHER AND THE HOLY SPIRIT DON’T EXIST, THAT IS BLASPHEMY AND MOST OF YOU WILL SAY “WE DONT SAY THAT” BUT YOU DO AND ITS BLASPHEMY~!!! TOTAL BLASPHEMY AND YOU NEED TO STOP AND EXAMINE YOURSELF AND YOUR FAITH AND NOT WORRY ABOUT PEOPLE PATTING YOU ON THE BACK BECAUSE YOUR ON “THEIR SIDE”

    YOU ARE BLASPHEMING GOD IN HIS NATURE, WHATEVER HIS NATURE IS, YOU ARE CREATED FOR HIM, FOR HIS GLORY, NOT TO QUESTION HIM, OR DEMAND THAT HE EXPLAIN HIMSELF, IF HE SAID IT, HE SAID IT!

    People in oneness groups! Open your eyes, you guys are preaching the anti-christ!

    1 John 2:22
    20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[e] 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

    If you avoid that the text says THE FATHER AND THE SON, you are headed for destruction! Please guys I love you in the name of Jesus, and by that I mean the authority of Christ !!! Not the letters J-E-S-U-S, but his power, his words and what he stood for! The apostles knew very well to listen to Jesus, even in baptism, Peter says later in the book of Acts, “We would rather listen to God than man”

    He wasn’t joking guys! He listened to Jesus when Jesus gave the command of baptism! In the greek and hebrew, “In the name of” means in the authority of! Read Acts 4… “By what power OR name have you come” If you don’t listen to Jesus, JUST like they did, you’re calling Jesus a liar and that’s a HORRIBLE thing! It’s not cute to be damning everyone off to hell because of one verse Acts 2:38… Read the rest of the bible in its entirety! It’s a beautiful love story! Not a sum of works that we have to do to get to heaven!

    Father is a name and title, Son is a name and title, Holy Spirit is most definitely and ABSOLUTELY a name and title SO STOP BEATING AROUND THE BUSH! Stop arguing the “well he said in the NAME of not in the NAMES of” If he said it, HE SAID IT! And I can guarantee you as a bondservant of Christ myself, that if Peter or Paul were here today, THEY WOULD NOT ATTEND YOUR CHURCHES!!! Trust me !

    Jesus says, “the Father and I are one” because they are one!

    Just as a man and woman are one flesh, they’re not “two fleshes” they are two people!

    And look, you guys would hate to hear this but when I did the research on “Our Lord is One(echad) God(Elohim)” and the Hebrew word “echad” describes corporate unity, if you don’t believe me, the Jewish Passover has a bread called the echad that breaks in three, why it breaks in three, I don’t know. The term “one flesh” in marriage in the bible is also “echad”.
    Elohim in Hebrew is plural, Eloha is singular.

    He also says, “I am in the Father and the Father is in me” HE MEANS JUST THAT GUYS!
    Listen, if Jesus said, “I AM the Father” then we wouldn’t be having any of these dumb debates!

    And trust me, I’ve heard ALLLLLLL the verses and ALLL the theologies and ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL the doctrines and theories and look, just stop guys, cuz you’re not convincing us that Jesus has no Father, when he CLEARLY states that he does in a plethora of verses… You are making him out to be a liar!

    And from a personal point of view, this hurts me to say, but I look at the women at your churches, its a great thing that they are submitting to their husbands, but man oh man, I just see a bitterness in their eyes and their faces, such an emptiness… and the men, ohh they walk with their chins way up high, and their formal attires in suits and ties and such, nasty pharisudical attitudes these men have telling their kids that ALL Christian churches are in the wrong baptism because they’re doing it the way CHRIST COMMANDED!! WAKE UP!!! The women, they just want truth and truth and truth and they continue to live in a perversion of the scriptures, I’m saying this because It’s true! I don’t want my girlfriend to be in this belief anymore… She even says she wonders “Don’t you have to have a Son to be a Father” and “Why was Jesus praying to himself” It’s so sad, so so so so sad…. And again, I’m not bagging on anyone, I’m just telling you to be fair to every Christian church or doctrine, and get in your room, fall on your face and request that God himself reveal his word to you.

    When we get to heaven, I HIGHLY DOUBT that God is gonna say,
    “Alright everyone who was baptised in ONLY Jesus name and attended an apostolic or UPC church, stand on this side of the room, all the others, sorry, you’re going to hell”

    I can already imagine the pride of these men and women, boys and girls who would just give us the dirty looks like they do on this earth….

    Hate to say it, but God is not gonna do that! He’s not! I just don’t feel comfortable about this and a lot of you guys don’t either!

    I just watched this video, on youtube of the UPCI church in stockton, I guess it’s one of the bigger and popular ones, you know the “biggest show in town” kinda churches, and I just watched this video of a song called “Only one God”. First of all, “DUHHHHH!” Secondly, observe very closely that these people aren’t even convinced in the things they are singing… WATCH IT FOR YOURSELF!

    Look at the women! THE WOMEN! I pray that The Lord Jesus himself reveal to you if that is indeed true worship.. And I’m not saying that trinitarian churches are true in worship, but watch this girl in jeans and short hair, and tell me if you don’t sense a difference…

    God isn’t coming for a denomination or a program, but a pure and Holy Bride, and that Bride manifests itself in YOU!… But when you have reservations about the body of Christ, you’re in danger, especially when you question God and how he moves.

    When the bible says that Jesus is the name above every name, it’s true! But it doesn’t mean that his name is above the name of his Father, or the Holy Spirit Which are names and they have meaning!

    And you’ll ask the dumb question of “Well, what is the name of the Father and of the Holy Spirit”

    And my answer is, you can ask Him that when you stand before His Majesty and cower and collapse to your knees just like I will and everyone else who has ever existed.

    I love the book of Acts, but I’d rather read the bible as a whole. The sad part here is that alot of you guys reading this, it’s up to God to change your minds and hearts about this… But if you don’t want to change, that’s because that’s his judgement upon your life. I’m not perfect, but I am definitely redeemed by the blood of Christ. Thank you Father for sending us your son! I owe you everything!

    • Nick / Jan 30 2011 7:44 pm

      Praise the Lord brother,

      No Apostolic with a sound biblical knowledge would ever say Jesus has no Father. The man Christ Jesus has a Father.

      Eph 2:3 “Blessed be God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”

      God is the Father of Jesus Christ. In Galatians 4:4 it states: “But when the fullness of the time wad come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law”

      The Son of God was made of a woman when the fullness of the time was come. He was sent by God.

      Isaiah foretold that this Son would be God with us (Isa 7:14). Isaiah said this child that was born, this son of the Father that would be given would himself be called the Everlasting Father.

      Isa. 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given… and his name shall be called… the Mighty God, The Everlasting Father”

      The Son of God is the Word (logos, ie expressed thought of God) made flesh.

      John 1:14 “and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us”

      Paul said that the Son of God was “God manifest in the flesh” 1 Tim. 3:16

      Notice, the writer just says “God” no mention of the later concept of “persons” which came into use in the 3rd Century AD.

      Is Jesus his own Father? Well, there is clearly a distinction made between the human nature and divine nature of Jesus Christ. For example, Jesus prayed as a man. However, as God He said: “before Abraham was I AM” Jhn. 8:58.

      However, Jesus said: “I and my Father are one” (Jhn. 10:30). Again, to Philip he said: “Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Phillip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (Jhn 14:9).

      In the same way Jesus is both our sacrifice and our Great High Priest, He is both Father and Son. The Father was in the Son reconciling the world unto Himself.

      2 Cor. 5:19 “To whit, that GOD was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation”

      Please do reply with any questions and am very sorry for the ignorant folk who accused you of believing 3 gods.

      Jesus is our lord and our God! (Jhn. 20:28)

      • Davider / Jan 30 2011 10:19 pm

        So by watching this video with the arrogance (not love) that they sing, this is your God?

        • Nick / Jan 30 2011 10:38 pm

          How is the song arrogant? It’s an affirmation of faith. All churches have doctrinal songs eg The Doxology.

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